an odd tuning question

[68muleteem]

OK, sorry if this seems WAY out there.

Has anyone looked into why the 13+ trucks get better mpg than the 10-12 models? The DEF does not make it burn any better, only modify's the gas composition out the tail pipe. I know they modify lots of parameters in the ECM but the semi's did not see any significant change at all. from what I have been reading the 10-12 models are the worst mpg by far. I had a 07.5 megacab that got 17 and I thought this 11 should get the same or maybe a little better, but only 15 on a good week.

I know the WARP tuning has just become available, but would there be a chance that setting a 10-12 to 13+ factory settings without the DEF system turned on up my mpg in this 11? Still trying to figure out what parameters they HAVE changed to make sense of this difference. I would even think about adding the DEF injection if it would matter but don't see how it could. My thought process is a little muddled on this I understand, but looking at ways to increase mpg without making truck "illegal". I am even seriously considering going to a 5.9 truck, but like this body much better.

If nothing else, I hope I can give someone a good laugh with this train of thought, I won't be offended.

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[TX NIGHT TRAIN]

@Double R Diesel can probably clear this up for you

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[DRD]

OK, sorry if this seems WAY out there.

Has anyone looked into why the 13+ trucks get better mpg than the 10-12 models? The DEF does not make it burn any better, only modify's the gas composition out the tail pipe. I know they modify lots of parameters in the ECM but the semi's did not see any significant change at all. from what I have been reading the 10-12 models are the worst mpg by far. I had a 07.5 megacab that got 17 and I thought this 11 should get the same or maybe a little better, but only 15 on a good week.

I know the WARP tuning has just become available, but would there be a chance that setting a 10-12 to 13+ factory settings without the DEF system turned on up my mpg in this 11? Still trying to figure out what parameters they HAVE changed to make sense of this difference. I would even think about adding the DEF injection if it would matter but don't see how it could. My thought process is a little muddled on this I understand, but looking at ways to increase mpg without making truck "illegal". I am even seriously considering going to a 5.9 truck, but like this body much better.

If nothing else, I hope I can give someone a good laugh with this train of thought, I won't be offended.

The 13up trucks getting better mileage in factory form than the 10-12s due to the tune the factory has in place. To sum it all up, it has everything to due with NOx emissions. With SCR with DEF/urea injection, NOx is able to better catalyzed in the exhaust through this treatment process. As a result the engine tune can be made more conducive to mileage. Understand mileage is the result of a more efficient combustion event. However a more efficient combustion event releases more NOx gas. The 10-12s did not have SCR, so the factory had to give them a poorly efficient tune to keep NOx emissions lower.

Ray
Double R Diesel, LLC
www.doublerdiesel.com
info@doublerdiesel.com

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[68muleteem]

OK, I understand this. Are you willing to try setting the engine up with the newer tunes if you can turn off the DEF function?

The one thing that is gained with DEF is a chemical change in the exhaust that makes it much cleaner, but it does not work without the DPF system to drive it. I would not mind running DEF at all if came without the rest.
Just imagine, the government told us we have to have a much poorer running engine to try and make cleaner air while other countries do what they want. We use maybe 20-30% more fuel which causes more pollution than the truck would have made. I have tried getting some info on how they treat exhaust in other countries because what I have found out is they work off the output and don't mandate how you achieve it.

I have messaged another company that does no delete tuning only and they say I should get 17-18 out of their tune. That is what started me wondering just what is different. Are they running the newer tunes in these trucks and don't care about the NOx. The soot going to the DPF should be less, which they claim and I believe them. It will Regen less also because it runs cleaner. Talked with a 14 owner that runs 23 on the highway MN to OK and loves it.

Ray, I wish I lived closer to you. I'd gladly let you guiney pig my truck to see how this would work out.( disclaimer= still saving for a delete kit, just wondering)

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[paulb]

You are correct, that there is a lot of tuning differences between the 10-12's and the 13+. As a general rule the combustion process starts earlier and last longer on the 13+. The 10-12's have 3 injection events. A pilot, main, and post event. The 13+'s have 5. Two pilot, a main, and two post. The one pilot is not used much though. A lot less of the total fuel delivery is done during the main injection event on the 13+'s. Here is a 13+ duration map:
13+duration map.jpg
And here is one from a 12:
12duration map.jpg
The 10=12's not only inject more of the fuel during the main event, but in the cruising area of the main injection timing map, it injects the fuel much later. The combination of less fuel being injected during the pilot injection, and a late main injection event, lowers combustion pressures, which lowers NOx. It also reduces combustion efficiency (fuel economy).

With Warp, it is possible to change when and how much fuel is delivered during each injection event. It would take quite a bit of work, but I think pretty significant gains can be made in fuel economy with the 10-12's.

As long as you have a DPF you will need to do a Regen. If not the DPF will fill up. Increasing the efficiency of the burn, will decrease how sever the Regens will need to be. This also can be adjusted in Warp.

Hope this helps...
Paul

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