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Thread: RaceME Ultra vs EFI Live

  1. Top Of Page | #1
    DRD's Avatar

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    RaceME Ultra vs EFI Live


    VS


    Hey Folks. Seems this is becoming a hot topic conversation, so I've decided to create this thread to shed some light on the Pro's and Con's of each. I want this thread to be as informative as possible with as little bias as possible. Anyone is welcome to post on this thread. You don't have to be a Double R Diesel customer to post up useful information here. All I ask is for folks try not to bash either product, just try to keep it to the facts...

    So I'll start this off by telling my observations. My observations are based off having made EFI Live tuning and having sold many RaceME Ultras and seeing the results.

    RaceME Ultra...

    The Ultra is truly a innovative high tech piece of equipment. It consist of a monitor, secondary processing unit, and all associated wiring as well as an optional EGT sensor unit. It tunes and serves as a secondary set of gauges with the ability to monitor anything broadcasted on the trucks CANBUS. It is operated by a touch screen interface and powers on/off automatically with operation of the vehicle. The Ultra uses a flash tune to reprogram the truck's PCM. The process takes a little as 7 minutes. The unit can return the truck back to stock at any time and be removed for resale or used on another truck. The Ultra can removed as well leaving a truck tuned but OTF tuning or PID monitoring will not be possible at this point. RaceME has even talked about offering multiple VIN licensing which would allow the Ultra to tune multiple trucks with one unit, but this is just talk at this point.

    As far as tuning, the 2013-15 trucks enjoy the most options at this point. User selectable power, timing, rail pressure, 68RFE trans line pressure, and turbo mapping are available at this time. Most of these features are on the fly adjustable not requiring a full flash tune change. The Ultra does require a special unlock cable to plugged into a 3 prong data port connector located at the back of the PCM in the wiring harness on the 2013 and up trucks. This is so because the Ultra uses a revolutionary process to communicate with the 2350 PCM through the back door and allows the RSA signature to stay in place which means no special unlock of the 2350 PCM is required. 2010-2012 trucks are about to receive the same tuning options as the 2013-15 trucks have now. The update is coming within the next few weeks. The 2007.5-2009 trucks will receive the same options in a update after the 2010-12 trucks options are complete. As of this moment though, the 2007.5- 2012 trucks use the same tuning options as were available with the old Smarty ME tuning options...the SW0-SW9 tuning selection.

    No complete "box" transmission tuning options (shift point changes and torque converter lockup strategy changes) are available for the Ultra at this time. Full custom tuning of the engine and transmission is not available via the RaceME Ultra yet. RaceME is promising to release software in the next few months that will allow professional custom tuners like us to make custom tuning for use with the Ultra for all year model 6.7 pickups and Cab and Chassis models. Cab and Chassis box tuning is limited to the non SCR equipped trucks at this time. All C&C models are soon to be included according to RaceME. Also the Ultra does not offer data logging just yet, but the unit is capable of it and RaceME is set to release software to enable it. Also worth noting, the Ultra is capable of doing non flash tune functions like recalibrating your speedometer. Finally it should be noted that all RaceME tuning up to this point is strictly OFF Road/Race tuning...no emissions present tuning so far.

    EFI Live...

    This is mainly just a tuning platform, albeit a very good one! The EFI Live platform is extensive and well tested. EFI Live public tuning options have been available for some time now for the later 5.9CR trucks and the 2007.5 -2009 6.7 Cummins trucks. Only just this year has EFI Live released public software that allows tuning of the 4th Gen 2010-15 model trucks. All EFI Live tuning is only focused on what can be accomplished in the PCM/ECM via the OBD port. EFI Live does not tune the 68 RFE TCMs found on the 2007.5-2009 68RFE automatic trans trucks. These TCM units have to be removed and benched flashed for transmission tuning with EFI Live. EFI Live does not turn off TPMS or calibrate speedometers and that kinda stuff. Trucks equipped with EFI Live tuning will need a monitoring device like an the Edge CTS or other gauges to monitor extra functions beyond what Ram provides.

    Tuning wise, EFI Live offers complete control of the ECM with the older trucks. Some of the hottest trucks at the pulls and races have an EFI Live tuned ECM. Its simply that good with the CM 849 and CM 2100 ECMs. With the CM 2200 (2010-2012 year model) and CM 2350 (2013-2015 year model) PCMs, things are not so complete publicly with EFI Live. This is where things get tricky. See EFI Live has not fully mapped out all the parameters needed to do some things with the 4th Gen trucks. Delete parameters and 68RFE parameters have not been mapped out by EFI Live yet. EFI Live is set to continue mapping out these big functions out later this year. This void in complete tuning control by EFI Live publicly has forced some very talented custom tuners to go in and do what EFI Live hasn't done already...mapping out the parameters needed to allow delete and transmission tuning (68RFE) for the 4th Gen trucks. So it must be noted that if a person buys delete tuning and also transmission tuning via EFI Live for a 2010-15 truck, they are buying tuning that is created by someone that is outside of EFI Live... this means that not all tuning is created equal. Some shops do have a better approach on these two issues better than others, so beware. EFI Live 4th Gen tuning can be truly spectacular in the hands of a capable person! Just always remember that EFI Live is no better than the person writing the tuning.

    A few more things about EFI Live...Data logging is here already and is very valuable in perfecting tuning. The data logging is a function of the CSP (Cummins Switchable Programming) and CSP does allow for true OTF tuning at the turn of a switch or button for all year models and trucks. EFI Live can tune all Cab and Chassis models already. You can certainly have emissions present tuning made via EFI Live. Also 2013-2015 trucks do require the PCM to unlocked by a Bully Dog tuner or removed and bench unlocked prior to tuning via EFI Live.
    EFI Live does need to update their hardware sometime soon. The autocal and V2 tuners are just simply getting out of date and lack the memory to handle the storage of just a few of the larger tune files the newer trucks use. You can get around the storage issues by using the autocal and V2 in pass thru mode with your PC but some sort of new interface is going to have to come forth to make EFI Live a more simple all in one tuning package.

    Please feel free to add to this discussion. There is sooo much to compare and I certainly probably have missed some points.

    Ray

    www.doublerdiesel.com
    email: info@doublerdiesel.com

    The Cummins Whisperer! John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10...Tuning for the Heart and Soul.


  2. Top Of Page | #2
    WE WILL STAND! IGOTACUMMINS's Avatar

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    Now this is a great topic!

    Awesome @Double R Diesel LLC

    "The grass is greener where you water it"


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  4. Top Of Page | #3
    More Powa! RATLIN'HP's Avatar

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    Raceme ultra rules! Far superior! Oh whoops? Wrong forum! LOL I have stuff to add but no time now. Great post Ray!

    2015 Black Laramie CCSB 3500 SRW. Thuren Leveled With Fox 2.0 Shocks. Ride Rite Rear Air Bags With Wireless Airlift Onboard Air. 35" Toyos. All The Options Minus The Soot Cookers. RaceMe Ultra.

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  6. Top Of Page | #4
    Permanent Vacation Diesel Dawgs Performance's Avatar

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    One of the reasons EFI Live doesn't truly support 2007.5+ trucks is due to federal emissions regulations. This is also the reason there is no Smarty Tuners or H&S Tuners that delete emissions.

    Luke
    www.dieseldawgs.com
    lukesdiesel@yahoo.com


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  8. Top Of Page | #5
    More Powa! RATLIN'HP's Avatar

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    From a consumers point of view, the 2 are definitely not apples to apples, and with some unknowns with what's to come from ultra, it's hard to make a great comparison of the 2 at this point. Any efi user will be quick to say it's better because of full trans, and full custom tuning. This is where the consumer needs to research what they want, and what they may want in the future. Efi is not a tuner. It's is a tuning platform that gives you, or in most cases a professional tuner the ability to tune. So if a guy wants deletes with some added pep, and nothing more, an autocal loaded with 4 tunes from a reputable will do the trick, but are they custom tunes? I mean the reputable tuner customized those 4 tunes at one time I guess, but chances are you got the same 4 tunes as every other guy that just wants deletes with a little pep. So really not much different than running canned tunes. However if bigger mods are in the future, most certainly that same tuner can customize tunes. I'm guessing the cost is a fair amount more for tunes other than the standard guys. The tuners using efi also have the ability to do full trans tuning on the 68. Sorry franz if your reading this, but this is a huge drawback for many people thinking about the ultra. I've seen it on multiple forums with guys ultimately making their final decision based on that. Now with that said I'm not into marketing or sales LOL, but I am an ultra user waiting for some full trans tuning. We were told it's coming, and waiting for me is not a big deal. The ultra does offer line pressure increases, which is a huge help to 68s longevity, and that was free update by the way. Trans tuning with efi I believe is another 300 bucks or so. Which brings me to cost. Autocal with 4 canned tunes, full trans tunes, csp 4 switch, and a bullydog to unlock, rounding cost real quick is roughly 1900. The all in one ultra unit is 1500. With the ultra up to date it includes on the fly tuning, line pressure increases, (not full trans tuning), and a modern day touch screen monitor that unlocks, so no need for a bullydog. It's been said that custom tuning, and full trans tuning will be coming before long. At what cost? To be determined I guess. For me it was kind of like looking into the future a little. I believe the ultra is a great product as it is, but I truly believe the future with a custom tuning platform, and full trans tuning will put the ultra at the top. Although there are always possibilities that others will step it up too. I will include my biggest issue with efi. When you buy an autocal with 4 tunes, the autocal is locked by the tuner. Unless that tuner will unlock for you, it is useless to anyone else. Say you sell your truck don't need the autocal anymore. It needs to be unlocked by your tuner to sell. Maybe they will, but still a hassle. And another downer to that is say your buddy with efi, but a different tuner than you got a set a tunes that you just love. You want some just like it but your tuner don't make tunes like your buddies tuner does. You're pretty much out of luck then unless you purchase another autocal and tunes from your buddies tuner, cuz your autocal is locked to your tuner. With my ultra it's vin locked to the truck, and that's it. If I don't want it anymore, I put the truck back to stock, and sell the unlocked ultra to anyone. And again with that all said it's yet to be determined how the custom tuning platform will be set up with ultra. I've rambled a lot here. I'm not gonna proof read it LOL. It's late and I'm on my phone. But if any of my info is wrong let me know. In short I went with ultra cuz it's an all in one unit, modern day touch screen, will have resale, believe in the future, (but getting impatient LOL), and in all reality cost less for what I need it for.

    2015 Black Laramie CCSB 3500 SRW. Thuren Leveled With Fox 2.0 Shocks. Ride Rite Rear Air Bags With Wireless Airlift Onboard Air. 35" Toyos. All The Options Minus The Soot Cookers. RaceMe Ultra.

  9. Top Of Page | #6
    Minion2012's Avatar

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    Okay, so, comparing the two as Ratlin' says isn't apples to apples. That's for sure. And the explanation from Ray was way more than enough, in simple enough terms to help anyone get educated of the two. That being said I'll go another route. What do you actually want to do with your truck? And what are you willing and/or capable of doing?

    I went with the Ultra because I want a reliable DD that's Easy to maintain, but still fun to drive. No strings attached. I'm willing to do quite a bit of my own work. I have a family. I NEED my truck on a daily basis. I did my deletes, installed the Ultra, and am playing with settings as we speak. It took me a weekend to get everything done with the help of my old man who is in retiree mode (so he pretty much watched and drank some beers). It can be done quicker, but with day to day interruptions sometimes it's tough to finish a project start to end. MOST anyone can put on the exhaust, delete the EGR, and install the Ultra. It's very user friendly and once its in, it's basically done. The only thing we have to do is update occasionally, and that is as easy as most of the other regular upkeep (oil changes, fuel filter, tire rotation, etc.) we already should be doing. Also, if that's all your going to do, that's all your going to do. Get in and go daily. Unless you have a major problem you can just leave it alone, update on your own and keep to yourself. And even if you want to start adding on, you won't have any problem supporting the basic bolt ons most of us want like a lift pump, maybe a CP3 upgrade, injectors, just to name a few. Again, more weekend projects (some more intense than others) that you can do at your leisure, adjust your Ultra and go to work on Monday and more than likely if you did your homework and got the right parts, the truck will run just fine. The bottom line is basically there are no strings attached. The normal person doesn't have access to tuners, or a truck shop, or anything like that. They need something that is a one and done. The Ultra gives you that capability. That is why I went that route.

    Now, all that said, I don't want you to think EFI can't be used in a daily driver, or isn't easy to maintain or anything like that. Because for some it is. Some people have their tuner right down the street. Some may get great service from one of the reputable tuners. Some may NOT HAVE to daily drive their rig, so sitting for a week waiting for tunes isn't a big deal. For anyone that has access and the capabilities, EFI is a great option. I have heard of too many people being dead in the water when they do something to their truck and are "waiting on tunes," "my tuner won't email me back," "it's pulling season and the shop doesn't have time for me," "they don't remember me," and so on and so forth. NOT ALL SHOPS ARE LIKE THIS!!!! But a lot are. So when people are doing their initial research and they hear about a "deal" or a "special" they jump on it. And then when they add that lift pump, or injectors, or even CHANGE TIRE SIZE, they are at the mercy of a fly by night shop or tuner that doesn't give a crap about them. AGAIN, NOT ALL SHOPS ARE LIKE THIS!!!! So, the advice there is if you go with EFI, develop some type of relationship with whoever you decide you are getting it from. Don't just order it online and hope for the best. I did it, and basically got burned. I wanted to do some more things to my Duramax and emailed my tuner MONTHS in advance and one of them included bigger tires. Never got a response so I had to drive around with my cell phone running a speedo app until I knew what the difference was. And I never got to install some of my other parts. That was my fault 100%. But live and learn.

    I'd also like to say, if you are planning on building something that you are going to drag race and win, or pull 400 feet with, or just try to KILL a dyno with HP, EFI Live is for sure a great route. Do you think you can tune your own truck? Do you have the time to go through all the data logs and adjust accordingly? Is there a dyno nearby you can try you tweaks on? Do you have a few buddies that can help give you advice and ideas? If some of these resources are close to you, then EFI is for sure a great choice. It give you so many detailed options to tweak just about ANYTHING. And like we all know, every truck is different. No matter what anyone says, every truck has it's own issues and with EFI Live, you can take those sort of things into account. You can build upon everything you do. If I was going to dive into any of those hobbies, I would probably switch to EFI in a heartbeat. But I would learn how to use it on my own, and that's also only if RaceMe wouldn't come out with custom tuning by then (just the thought that would come, even for extra cost would be awesome!)


    More of a every day consumer explanation than technical, but thought some of these points have never really been hit before. There is always more to add, but that's enough for now.


  10. Top Of Page | #7
    DRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion2012 View Post
    Okay, so, comparing the two as Ratlin' says isn't apples to apples. That's for sure. And the explanation from Ray was way more than enough, in simple enough terms to help anyone get educated of the two. That being said I'll go another route. What do you actually want to do with your truck? And what are you willing and/or capable of doing?

    I went with the Ultra because I want a reliable DD that's Easy to maintain, but still fun to drive. No strings attached. I'm willing to do quite a bit of my own work. I have a family. I NEED my truck on a daily basis. I did my deletes, installed the Ultra, and am playing with settings as we speak. It took me a weekend to get everything done with the help of my old man who is in retiree mode (so he pretty much watched and drank some beers). It can be done quicker, but with day to day interruptions sometimes it's tough to finish a project start to end. MOST anyone can put on the exhaust, delete the EGR, and install the Ultra. It's very user friendly and once its in, it's basically done. The only thing we have to do is update occasionally, and that is as easy as most of the other regular upkeep (oil changes, fuel filter, tire rotation, etc.) we already should be doing. Also, if that's all your going to do, that's all your going to do. Get in and go daily. Unless you have a major problem you can just leave it alone, update on your own and keep to yourself. And even if you want to start adding on, you won't have any problem supporting the basic bolt ons most of us want like a lift pump, maybe a CP3 upgrade, injectors, just to name a few. Again, more weekend projects (some more intense than others) that you can do at your leisure, adjust your Ultra and go to work on Monday and more than likely if you did your homework and got the right parts, the truck will run just fine. The bottom line is basically there are no strings attached. The normal person doesn't have access to tuners, or a truck shop, or anything like that. They need something that is a one and done. The Ultra gives you that capability. That is why I went that route.

    Now, all that said, I don't want you to think EFI can't be used in a daily driver, or isn't easy to maintain or anything like that. Because for some it is. Some people have their tuner right down the street. Some may get great service from one of the reputable tuners. Some may NOT HAVE to daily drive their rig, so sitting for a week waiting for tunes isn't a big deal. For anyone that has access and the capabilities, EFI is a great option. I have heard of too many people being dead in the water when they do something to their truck and are "waiting on tunes," "my tuner won't email me back," "it's pulling season and the shop doesn't have time for me," "they don't remember me," and so on and so forth. NOT ALL SHOPS ARE LIKE THIS!!!! But a lot are. So when people are doing their initial research and they hear about a "deal" or a "special" they jump on it. And then when they add that lift pump, or injectors, or even CHANGE TIRE SIZE, they are at the mercy of a fly by night shop or tuner that doesn't give a crap about them. AGAIN, NOT ALL SHOPS ARE LIKE THIS!!!! So, the advice there is if you go with EFI, develop some type of relationship with whoever you decide you are getting it from. Don't just order it online and hope for the best. I did it, and basically got burned. I wanted to do some more things to my Duramax and emailed my tuner MONTHS in advance and one of them included bigger tires. Never got a response so I had to drive around with my cell phone running a speedo app until I knew what the difference was. And I never got to install some of my other parts. That was my fault 100%. But live and learn.

    I'd also like to say, if you are planning on building something that you are going to drag race and win, or pull 400 feet with, or just try to KILL a dyno with HP, EFI Live is for sure a great route. Do you think you can tune your own truck? Do you have the time to go through all the data logs and adjust accordingly? Is there a dyno nearby you can try you tweaks on? Do you have a few buddies that can help give you advice and ideas? If some of these resources are close to you, then EFI is for sure a great choice. It give you so many detailed options to tweak just about ANYTHING. And like we all know, every truck is different. No matter what anyone says, every truck has it's own issues and with EFI Live, you can take those sort of things into account. You can build upon everything you do. If I was going to dive into any of those hobbies, I would probably switch to EFI in a heartbeat. But I would learn how to use it on my own, and that's also only if RaceMe wouldn't come out with custom tuning by then (just the thought that would come, even for extra cost would be awesome!)


    More of a every day consumer explanation than technical, but thought some of these points have never really been hit before. There is always more to add, but that's enough for now.
    You brought up some very good points.


    Since you did bring it up, I'll mention an example I dealt with...

    I had a potential customer contact me about changing his EFI Live Tuning around. He had purchased his autocal and tuning from probably one of the biggest shops out there selling EFI Live. He had contacted them about adding a single event/12V sound tune to his package. Their response was that they had and could do it, but they weren't going to! They basically told the poor guy they didn't have time to do it! I instructed the guy to inquire about getting his autocal unlocked from that shop's/tuner's V2. He did and got no response.

    I will not call the name of that shop but the moral of that story is that this shop was basically only interested in selling their "canned" EFI Live tuning for his type of truck...no special stuff or what I call true custom tuning. His truck was a 2012 G56 truck.

    Ray

    www.doublerdiesel.com
    email: info@doublerdiesel.com

    The Cummins Whisperer! John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10...Tuning for the Heart and Soul.


  11. Top Of Page | #8
    Old & Grumpy! Polaraco's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double R Diesel LLC View Post
    You brought up some very good points.


    Since you did bring it up, I'll mention an example I dealt with...

    I had a potential customer contact me about changing his EFI Live Tuning around. He had purchased his autocal and tuning from probably one of the biggest shops out there selling EFI Live. He had contacting them about adding a single event/12V sound tune to his package. There response was that they had and could do it, but they weren't going to! They basically told the poor guy they didn't have time to do it! I instructed the guy to inquire about getting his autocal unlocked from that shop's/tuner's V2. He did and got no response.

    I will not call the name of that shop but the moral of that story is that this shop was basically only interested in selling their "canned" EFI Live tuning for his type of truck...no special stuff or what I call true custom tuning. His truck was a 2012 G56 truck.


    Ray

    www.doublerdiesel.com
    email: info@doublerdiesel.com
    There's so much of that these days. They probably hired a guy to do a bunch of MCC and then sent him packing. Real nice

    You can install a Race Me in my truck. LOL Maybe it will understand it better than the Smarty does. Don't make me drag out that soap box about Smarty again. . . .


    2003- 3500 RWD Automatic.
    S & B intake, BD Intercooler, Pusher Air Horn, MM3 Double R Tuning, Turbo Timer, electric Flex-a-lite fans, FASS 95,
    50 HP tips, upgrade to 351 turbo, 3.42 gears, Twin air compressors, air bags, Remote dual oil filters, Hellwig sway bar, Front Winch. Home made Fuel Heater, BD Exhaust brake with Torque Lock. Tons of TLC

  12. Top Of Page | #9
    More Powa! RATLIN'HP's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double R Diesel LLC View Post
    You brought up some very good points.


    Since you did bring it up, I'll mention an example I dealt with...

    I had a potential customer contact me about changing his EFI Live Tuning around. He had purchased his autocal and tuning from probably one of the biggest shops out there selling EFI Live. He had contacted them about adding a single event/12V sound tune to his package. Their response was that they had and could do it, but they weren't going to! They basically told the poor guy they didn't have time to do it! I instructed the guy to inquire about getting his autocal unlocked from that shop's/tuner's V2. He did and got no response.

    I will not call the name of that shop but the moral of that story is that this shop was basically only interested in selling their "canned" EFI Live tuning for his type of truck...no special stuff or what I call true custom tuning. His truck was a 2012 G56 truck.

    Ray

    www.doublerdiesel.com
    email: info@doublerdiesel.com
    And examples like this are my biggest negatives with efi. I didn't even know these things about efi when I got my ultra. I didn't know the autocal was locked and so, but I would be so unhappy to find out like that guy did. I won't call out the shop either, but I will say there are a ton of people running that shops efi tunes, and with customer service like that, and not even responding to the guy about getting his autocal unlocked, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.

    2015 Black Laramie CCSB 3500 SRW. Thuren Leveled With Fox 2.0 Shocks. Ride Rite Rear Air Bags With Wireless Airlift Onboard Air. 35" Toyos. All The Options Minus The Soot Cookers. RaceMe Ultra.

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  14. Top Of Page | #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RATLIN'HP View Post
    And examples like this are my biggest negatives with efi. I didn't even know these things about efi when I got my ultra. I didn't know the autocal was locked and so, but I would be so unhappy to find out like that guy did. I won't call out the shop either, but I will say there are a ton of people running that shops efi tunes, and with customer service like that, and not even responding to the guy about getting his autocal unlocked, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.
    Unfortunately from what I've found that seems to be the "typical" for the bigger shops no matter the brand. Had a welder ask if I'd tweak his efi for his duramax since the company that tuned it wouldn't make the changes needed for his truck to run right. They won't even respond to him anymore and as soon as they figure out he's the one on the phone they hang up. I mean come on, even if you ask for another $100 to unlock the autocal at least it's something.... But then again it was that mindset for customer service when I was dealing with MCC that got me hooked up with Ray.


    Sent from a Well Head


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