CP4 Question

[RamIt]

If that were true, then people running Cummins approved PowerKleen wouldn’t be seeing failures of their pumps too.

I just had a customer of mine have their fuel system go out. 5000 miles on the truck.

I think the problem is the lift pump causing aeration in the lines. Air will grenade the injection pump instantly.

I don’t think the root cause, based on his diagnosis, is actually the CP4.

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[RATLIN'HP]

Story I got was the CP4s is made for European fuel... where they're smart enough not to refine all the damn lubricity out of it like the stupidity we do here, and they just tear themselfs apart like runnin a engine without oil

Yeah this is exactly what I was trying to say, and the story I read too.

However I do think this is a story of the early CP4 pumps in the Duramax's and Powerstroke.

It's a bit frightening to see all these RAM CP4 issues.

I mean you read about them on the Duramax forums occasionally, but not near as much lately as there use to be.

I'd certainly agree it could be lift pump issues as well.

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[SyN]

The Power Service (Diesel Kleen) lubricity HFRR test that I witnessed a couple years ago - showed this product not to have faired very well & showed this same product to barely show much improvement over the base line diesel fuel.

Not saying it is a poor quality product - but there is not alot of Lubricity additive within the product itself. (Even though the company advertises it's Slick Diesel additive)

I'm by no means - stating that adding a high quality diesel fuel Lubricity Additive like - Archoil AR6200 / EDT / Opti-Lube XPD will help prolong the CP4 life span.

I feel this whole fuel system - Including the CP4 needs to be re-evaluated & possibly redesigned ----> Just My Opinion!

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[ram19]

If that were true, then people running Cummins approved PowerKleen wouldn’t be seeing failures of their pumps too.

I just had a customer of mine have their fuel system go out. 5000 miles on the truck.

I think the problem is the lift pump causing aeration in the lines. Air will grenade the injection pump instantly.

I don’t think the root cause, based on his diagnosis, is actually the CP4.

Did you have a chance to evaluate the pump as far as breaking it down?

If so did the shaft with the roller spin in the hub?

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[Chrisn162001]

If that were true, then people running Cummins approved PowerKleen wouldn’t be seeing failures of their pumps too.

I just had a customer of mine have their fuel system go out. 5000 miles on the truck.

I think the problem is the lift pump causing aeration in the lines. Air will grenade the injection pump instantly.

I don’t think the root cause, based on his diagnosis, is actually the CP4.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen lube techs crank CP3 trucks till they start with empty fuel bowls after they change filters and they are fine. I’ve worked on nothing but dodge diesels at the dealership since 2010 In that time I have replaced a hand full of CP3s all were no pressure issues not metal contamination. Between eco diesels and new 2019 up cp4s I’ve replace over 20 for high pressure pumps sending metal through the return lines.

We can go back and forth on root cause on Cp4s all day. To me it’s a bad design plain and simple we market these trucks as heavy duty longest lasting blah blah but they can’t take a little air in the lines like the previous CP3s did.

The lawsuit against bosh and now that duramax is a using denso pump plus what I’ve seen tells me all I need to know about cp4s.

If your root cause comment was referring to my post. To me it’s looking like the cp4s the cause as there’s no metal in the inlet lines either in the transfer pump section or the frame lines only in the return lines, either way it’s getting a new fuel system.


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[RamIt]

Did you have a chance to evaluate the pump as far as breaking it down?

If so did the shaft with the roller spin in the hub?

Truck is not at my store yet. It broke down over 3 hours away while on the highway pulling a trailer. I'm waiting for it to be transported here.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen lube techs crank CP3 trucks till they start with empty fuel bowls after they change filters and they are fine. I’ve worked on nothing but dodge diesels at the dealership since 2010 In that time I have replaced a hand full of CP3s all were no pressure issues not metal contamination. Between eco diesels and new 2019 up cp4s I’ve replace over 20 for high pressure pumps sending metal through the return lines.

We can go back and forth on root cause on Cp4s all day. To me it’s a bad design plain and simple we market these trucks as heavy duty longest lasting blah blah but they can’t take a little air in the lines like the previous CP3s did.

The lawsuit against bosh and now that duramax is a using denso pump plus what I’ve seen tells me all I need to know about cp4s.

If your root cause comment was referring to my post. To me it’s looking like the cp4s the cause as there’s no metal in the inlet lines either in the transfer pump section or the frame lines only in the return lines, either way it’s getting a new fuel system.


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My comment has to do with the basis of the diagnosis my customer received on his truck, irrespective of anything you have posted here. Additionally, from other sources outside this forum, more people are starting to look towards the lift pump as the cause of the CP4 failure. The fact that the CP4 goes out isn't being disputed, it's what's leading up to that that is. Furthermore, the CP4 was redesigned to address the asymmetrical lobe design and that has not stopped the failures (the truck that just blew up is running the new style pump) which would suggest that the cause of the failure is not directly related to the pump itself.

https://www.duramaxforum.com/threads...arison.994717/

Here's a link to a conversation that goes into what I'm referring to. The suggestion is that the lift pump is over pressurizing the fuel supply gears. Whether or not this is the case on the CP4 failures is presently unknown, but based on pump design differences between the 3 and 4, it would make sense that this is a solid starting point to look at.

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[Chrisn162001]

Truck is not at my store yet. It broke down over 3 hours away while on the highway pulling a trailer. I'm waiting for it to be transported here.



My comment has to do with the basis of the diagnosis my customer received on his truck, irrespective of anything you have posted here. Additionally, from other sources outside this forum, more people are starting to look towards the lift pump as the cause of the CP4 failure. The fact that the CP4 goes out isn't being disputed, it's what's leading up to that that is. Furthermore, the CP4 was redesigned to address the asymmetrical lobe design and that has not stopped the failures (the truck that just blew up is running the new style pump) which would suggest that the cause of the failure is not directly related to the pump itself.

https://www.duramaxforum.com/threads...arison.994717/

Here's a link to a conversation that goes into what I'm referring to. The suggestion is that the lift pump is over pressurizing the fuel supply gears. Whether or not this is the case on the CP4 failures is presently unknown, but based on pump design differences between the 3 and 4, it would make sense that this is a solid starting point to look at.

Interesting hadn’t seen that yet.

My issue with that theory is the transfer fuel pump is the same part number between 18 yr model and 19-20. Unless you got the 48 gallon tank then the pump is different.

They only changed the cam design in the pump not the roller or the housing to my knowledge.


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[RamIt]

Interesting hadn’t seen that yet.

My issue with that theory is the transfer fuel pump is the same part number between 18 yr model and 19-20. Unless you got the 48 gallon tank then the pump is different.

They only changed the cam design in the pump not the roller or the housing to my knowledge.


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I don't think it's necessarily a mechanical failure, but an issue causing the lift pump to over pressurize the supply line. This seems to be further supported by the lack of failures in HO trucks & trucks with the larger fuel tank. However, Mopar parts lists 3 different part numbers for "fuel pump" for an in-tank unit. But only 19/20 shows 68457124AB listed for a 3500 diesel pump. Granted I don't have the same insight into parts as the parts department does so I'm limited to customer facing searches.

A by VIN parts look up of a HO & non-HO fuel pump might provide more depth to this.

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[Chrisn162001]

I don't think it's necessarily a mechanical failure, but an issue causing the lift pump to over pressurize the supply line. This seems to be further supported by the lack of failures in HO trucks & trucks with the larger fuel tank. However, Mopar parts lists 3 different part numbers for "fuel pump" for an in-tank unit. But only 19/20 shows 68457124AB listed for a 3500 diesel pump. Granted I don't have the same insight into parts as the parts department does so I'm limited to customer facing searches.

A by VIN parts look up of a HO & non-HO fuel pump might provide more depth to this.

I didn’t keep track of ho or std or what tank the trucks had that had CP4 failures so I can’t really speak on that.

I can’t remember sales code for ho to verify just big tank little tank I’ll look in a bit.

I believe the eco uses the same pump as well.

I honestly never pay attention to what psi these pumps put out since we test for volume not pressure.

But seriously, Kinda seems like they are trying to place blame where ever they can.

These engineers are not dumb they have multiple teams that take the damaged parts and pinpoint exact cause of failure.

I had an engineering team come out for a transfer case failure on the 19 model 2500 with 380 miles.

I don’t buy that they don’t know what’s going on with them after all the time they have been out.


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[Chrisn162001]

Just for FYI ho transfer pump shows two part numbers.

One being the same as 2018 and 2019 up non ho - the other part number is for models equipped with 48 gallon tank.


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