Towing Confusing, Seeking Wisdom

[mpless]

Being new to owning a RAM 2500 personally.

I am a bit confused to the towing numbers.

I came from a Tacoma so 5th wheel, gooseneck where never an option LOL.

Below are the number I see when I use RAMS website for my truck by VIN.

I've been looking into campers and utility trailers getting ideas as to needs and wants.

If i follow the 20 percent of the gross trailer weight for tongue weight then I'm not left with much to stay at/below the 1600 lbs. (8000 lbs x 20% = 1600 lbs).

Am I going about this the right way, I'm wanting to keep this safe and gain a better understanding.

From the looks of it trailers are following a 20% rule and Ram is following a 10% rule, but looks can be deceiving.

Thanks in advance.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

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[SyN]

I personally have a 1" stack of paper work & notes on this matter - gone to bed with many headaches.

My 2017 #s ---Max Payload = 2006.09 lbs
Max Towing = 17306.09

With all the BS floating around & weight police giving unwanted advice - I have numbers wrote down on a scratch piece of paper on the top of all my notes.

5th Wheel max dry weight ---> Between 11K & 12k lbs
I want my ending loaded weight around the 15Klb range - not over 15,500lbs.
Pin weight ---> I really don't want over 2,100lbs.

I will not be towing all over the country - possibly farthest will be one way 400 miles.
Still have rear air bags to purchase & install.

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[mpless]

Its definitely confusing when looking at the numbers.

At these numbers the max towing is almost impossible to reach while keeping the pin weight down.

I mean the tundra is 1500-1700 with a max tow of 8-10k.

I love the truck don't get me wrong I'm just wanting to know the limits to keep the family safe going down the road.

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[RATLIN'HP]

Ok I'm not "that guy" normally, but I can tell you I've pulled across scales grossing 28-29k total in a 8500 pound truck.

See guys doing it everyday too.

I never split it, as the farmer only wanted average weight of the hogs, but the axles on livestock trailers are way to the back, so hitch weight was pretty good.

Axles on a camper are about mid way so your tongue weight is minimal.

I'm just saying I wouldn't worry much about most any camper made.

If you can stop it you can pull it.

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[RATLIN'HP]

I should of said I was in a 3500 dually as well, however the guy i pulled for used a srw 3500 and never had any issues. But I thought I should mention I'm not comparing apples to apples. I still would have to say you're gonna have a hard time finding a camper that truck wont pull and pull very well. My opinion based off experiences not numbers and specs.

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[Power247]

Being new to owning a RAM 2500 personally.

I am a bit confused to the towing numbers.

I came from a Tacoma so 5th wheel, gooseneck where never an option LOL.

Below are the number I see when I use RAMS website for my truck by VIN.

I've been looking into campers and utility trailers getting ideas as to needs and wants.

If i follow the 20 percent of the gross trailer weight for tongue weight then I'm not left with much to stay at/below the 1600 lbs. (8000 lbs x 20% = 1600 lbs).

Am I going about this the right way, I'm wanting to keep this safe and gain a better understanding.

From the looks of it trailers are following a 20% rule and Ram is following a 10% rule, but looks can be deceiving.

Thanks in advance.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

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The has been debated many times, especially on the camper forums. My understanding is the issue here is that in order to be classified as a 2500 truck the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GWVR) from Ram has to be limited to what fits in that rule. The math from there is simple....
GWVR - actual truck weight = payload.
This has nothing to do with the capability of the truck or how safely it can haul a load. This is why many states (NC is one of them) allow you to register a truck to a weight greater than the GWVR.
Our camper is just over 9k loaded and never once felt unsafe pulling it with my '12 or the new truck.

Greg
2019 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | 6.4 HEMI
2016 | Heartland Pioneer | DS310

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[Crshanta]

My suggestion is to stay less than 2k pin weight. If you go above 1500lbs add a weight distribution hitch or go with fifth wheel. You will be close or slightly over payload rating of the truck with gear and passengers, but under axel and tire rating. The biggest factor is the nut behind the wheel when towing. If driving conservative, about the speed limit and allowing good distance all will be fine. If passing everyone is your goal, get a tent camper or stay in a hotel.

If you are super concerned or curious about weight and axle limits, rent or barrow a utility trailer and a skid steer. Then go to a truck scale and weight the truck with trailer attached but not on scale, and truck plus trailer. Do it a couple times with the skid steer baised forward, rear and centered to see how it effects the truck weight. Might get a few questions from bystanders, but you are doing research. What you will find is keeping truck and trailer level helps distributing the load evenly over all axles.

one other factor is the type of trailer axle. I typically stay way from double torsion beam axles, but it the rv industry they are tough to avoid, cause they are cheap. Be evenly loaded is a key to keeping from overloading the rear or front trailer axle. Gets a bit more tricky with a leveled truck, since the front is typically going to sit higher than the rear. This is were air bags or helper springs come into play. Not so much for additional payload, but for leveling out the combo.

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[mpless]

Thanks for the info, it helps alot.

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[BubbaJo]

That is a super low payload weight for a 3/4 ton truck.

Is that normal for the mega cabs? (not questioning you or anything just more shocked at the low weight).

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[michaelrc51]

That is a super low payload weight for a 3/4 ton truck.

Is that normal for the mega cabs? (not questioning you or anything just more shocked at the low weight).

Not for a diesel that has a lot of options. Remember, a 3/4 ton truck(up until this year) has a 10k GVWR. Payload = GVWR - weight of the vehicle.
My current 2016 Ram 2500 Mega Cab Limited CTD has a payload of just under 1800lbs. Crazy, right?
I bought a 2500 thinking it would be great for towing the Raptor 300MP I bought.....NOT!!
I mean, it pulls and stops it fine but I know I am close to the 6500lbs RAWR, way over on payload which also means I'm way over my GVWR with trailer hooked up.

To the OP, it's actually really simple if you're going by the book.
GVWR = max total weight of either TV or trailer
GCWR = Max combined weight of both TV and trailer
Payload = Pin or tongue weight + weight of any people or cargo in the TV. This is where a 3/4 ton is barely better than a 1/2 ton truck, due to 10k GVWR(until this year).
RAWR = Manufacturer's max rear axle load capability
FAWR = Manufacturer's max front axle load capability
Capability = RAWR + FAWR

My setup(weight police please don't blast me, I am looking for 3500 as I type):
TV GVWR of 10k lbs - Truck weight of 8170lbs = 1830lbs of payload
Trailer empty 12,800lbs and 2800lbs on the pin. My pin weight alone puts me 1k lbs over payload of the TV and that's empty. Trailer GVWR is 16.5k lbs. At that weight I would expect pin load to be 3400-3500lbs since it's a toy hauler and garage weight will actually take weight off of the pin load. I tow with all tanks empty to keep weight down.

In my 1 year of towing this Raptor 300MP I have concluded a few things from observation and conversation at racetracks and campgrounds.

1. Weight measurements and understanding of them is all over the place and few actually know how to determine this. Of course people that are in the now are prob laughing at my setup and weights.

2. Dealers/ Salesman will tell you your truck is fine up to you max towing rate, regardless of any other numbers.

3. Again, almost all of the people out there have no clue or understanding of the weights and laws.

I just wish I knew more before I bought this truck. I would've definitely gone with a 3500. I am currently looking, just unsure if I am gonna make the jump to a dually or not at this point in time. Of course I did the "spark plug upgrade" and am planning to do some others shortly so I will have to put this truck back to stock to sell it.

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