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Thread: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

  1. Top Of Page | #11
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Today I want to talk about ECMs. This goes back to when I bought the 2018 engine. When I first started looking for info, it appeared that the new 2018 security wouldn't allow me to use the original ECM. That was wrong but I didn't know that then. So, armed with my mis-information I went down the path of using a non-Ram version of the ECM (CM2350A). I still think that it can be done, I just couldn't get it to work. The HD commercial version of the ISB6.7 is for sure different in several ways, here are a few that I know of:
    1. Most commercial engines have a rear valve train gear configuration. This changes the location and number of the crank position sensors.
    2. Most have a second crank position sensor in the bellhousing.
    3. Most don't have a MAF sensor like the Ram.
    4. Injection pump is driven from the rear of the engine and not the front.

    I am sure that there are more, but these are the big things. Also, I say most only assuming that I didn't find all configuration variations available. If I could have found a calibration that looked closer to the Ram configuration, I could have made this work. If I had got the CM2350A to work, adding cruise control would have been an option since it is a hardwired function of the ECM and not CAN driven. I am not sure of the tuning options without MAF but I am sure that I could have gotten the 1000 lb/ft of torque that I am looking for.

    I started tracking down parts for plan A (CM2350A), plan B (CM2200), and plan C (CM850) and the corresponding harnesses for each. Along with the ECMs and harnesses I picked up what I thought that I needed for tools. Bought a Cummins Inline 6 pass-thru adapter, Cummins Insite, Cummins Calterm. Now with all of my tools, I put together a bench harness for the CM2350A, I started trying to figure out what to do. I found a good amount of information but never everything that I needed. Turned out that not only did I need to do the deletes (EGR, DPF, DEF), I needed to adjust the configuration for the different location of the crank position sensor and lack of MAF. I assume that this would require a completely different strategy which I couldn't find an example of. After a full 6 weeks of working on the ECM, I think I have it. The Engine is in the truck (will update on install next) and ready to test the ECM. I was hoping that I could at least get it running in derate mode, but no luck. After messing with the CPS configuration and other random settings, I gave up. Thinking that I would move on to Plan B or C, I started looking at the parts that I would have to replace on my 1000 mile Cummins engine, I delayed on going that route. I sprung for a EFI Live V2, put the Ram CM2350B on, flashed it with a stock tune for the 2018, and upgraded to CSP5 OS. Hooked up my power and pedal, turned the key, and shazam, it started up. Turns out that the new security that Ram put in place for 2018 is just a security module that goes between the ECM and the ODB port. I was also worried about the SKIM, but seems that the EFI Live kills that as well. So now I have a "kind of running" Cummins in my Ford. Still a lot to do but feeling better about it. Next post will be the physical install and the things that I learned from that but I will continue with the issues that I am running in to trying to get the Ford ECM to control the transmission.

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  3. Top Of Page | #12
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    As for the physical install, it overall went okay. Here are some things that I figured out by trial and error (mostly error). First, buy all of the conversion parts from the same builder as there are repercussions if you don't. For example, the motor mounts make a difference with the power steering mount. Also, F250/F350 is different than F450/F550. The power steering gearbox is bigger on the F450/F550 than the F250/F350, so different mount needed for the Ford diesel pump. In my case the used engine mounts I bought, already had been drilled to change the height of the engine for a compound turbo setup that the previous owner had tried to install. These extra holes seemed to help me out with power steering pump to gearbox clearance issue that I had. Then there was a flexplate issue. Somewhere along the way, Cummins change the way the factory flexplate centered. It went from centering on the outside of the crank snout to a centering ring on the center of the shaft. Problem was, the conversion flexplate didn't account for this. So I have the option of either grinding off the centering ring on the crankshaft or cutting a recess in the flexplate. I went with modifying the flexplate just in case this engine ever needed to go back in to a Ram. I broke out my die grinder and ground a circle in the face of the flexplate. Seemed to work but not sure yet, having issues with the starter. It is possible that the circle that I cut may have not been deep enough. For some reason the starter doesn't like to engage far enough to start the starter motor. Swapped the starter with another, and still the same issue. Back to the motor mounts, the ones that I used won't let you keep the ECM mounted on the side of the engine. You can barely see in the photo where I built a stand that is welded to the crossmember of the truck that holds the ECM. Another company claims that their mounts would have worked but I didn't find that until I had already cut/lengthened my driveshafts and I don't know if the different mounts changes the location of the engine or not. The location/height of the engine also makes a difference on the fan shroud, which I will have to make some adjustments for that anyways since I had to raise the engine to accommodate the power steering/gearbox clearance issue. One of the things that I didn't realize on this swap was the relocation of the engine. There are a set of transmission mount holes that are about 2 inches to the rear of where mine started. The biggest issue with the physical install will be this move. Driveshafts got lengthened/shortened (4X4), which was easy, problem now is the manual shift transfer case. I have no idea what the rearward set of holes are for but it doesn't appear to be for a 4X4 truck with a manual shift transfer case. When I started looking through the parts catalog, the shift lever and swivel was different for a gas engine vs a diesel engine so I thought that would fix me up. Not the case, still the same issue, shifter is 2 inches further back from the hole in the floor. Looks like I will have to do some fabrication of the swivel to move the lever a couple inches forward.

    Exhaust so far seems to be going okay as well. Bought a down pipe from a 2017 Ram that has a big flex joint in the middle. It fits in the space but a little close the the transmission cooler lines. I have a trans temp gauge that I can keep an eye on just in case I have to do some reengineering. I kept the factory flange on the downpipe and found a guy that builds a weld on replacement flange that would normally go on a DPF. Bolts up like it should and I will extend that with a piece of 4 inch pipe that I picked up. The muffler is a simple commercial side exit dumped straight to the ground. Will look more like a big box truck with the muffler putting the soot to the ground and not in someones face or on my fifthwheel.

    The fan shroud is going to need some work. With the changes to the height of the engine, I can't use the Cummins inner fan shroud even if I did have it. When everything lines up with the right mounts and engine location, the Cummins inner shroud is supposed to line up with the conversion shroud that I have. But in my case, not so much. With my arrangement, I have space issue getting the cool side intercooler pipe up between the frame and the shroud so that will be a little cutting action happening to help out. Along with the cut, I will need to have a lower panel cut to fill in a very large gap around the bottom. I had opted to use a Ford 7.3 fan and clutch which is a little smaller than the Cummins which was good, the Cummins fan would have never fit. As long as I close in the bottom of the shroud, I don't expect to have any cooling issues.

    I got on Amazon and picked up a bunch of random intercooler pipe including a kit that was supposed to fit my truck if it came with a diesel engine. That didn't work out so well, the kit didn't really fit very well. They have you cutting up the core support just to make it fit. Looks like I will get to use some of the parts after a sawzall and a hammer but I did have to order one of the Ford pieces to get through the core support.

    Transmission line and filler tube were fun (NOT). For the lines I started with a new set from Ford. Each line is a two piece assembly that after they are assembled, you can't get them apart (found a YouTube video about that). The rear section is the same between a gas truck and diesel but the front are different. Because you can't get them apart and I needed the diesel version for the fronts, Ford parts order was placed. After I got my new lines, I broke out my torch. With some heat, hammer, pliers and some blocks of wood, I was able to reshape the lines to fit. Turned out pretty good and will have a decent pattern to use if I have some made in the future. For the filler tube, I used the original. Again with the torch, did a little adjusting with some heat, and got it looking like a factory tube. Found a stud topped bolt on the valve cover of the Cummins to bolt a strap of metal to and welded it to the tube. Topped it off with some semi-flat black paint and good to go. I did measure the before and after of the dipstick and it came in less than an eighth of an inch different, not enough for me to worry about.

    Fuel lines are another good story. I still haven't got far enough to test my plan but here is what I did. The gas truck has an in tank pump with a fuel pump driver module and no return line. The ECM monitors the fuel temp and pressure and the rail and maintains 40psi. The Cummins wants 10psi at the engine but has a return line. So I re-plumbed the vapor line that goes back from the engine to the canister that hangs off of the frame through a "T" that ends up in the tank. I swapped out the "T" for a coupler and now returning fuel through the original vapor line. Seems to work and haven't blown anything up yet. As for pressure, the original fuel rail pressure sensor is a potentiometer that varies a 5 volt signal. So what I will be doing is feeding the Ford ECM with an aftermarket pressure sensor that I will be putting inline. I don't have exact numbers there may be some tests but the maintained voltage from the sensor for the ECM should be around 2.8 volts so I picked up a 20 PSI sensor that will output about the 2.8 volts at 10psi. So my hopes are is that the pump will see the 2.8 volts and maintain that pressure. I will see.
    20190818_170634594_iOS.jpg20190813_005435758_iOS.jpg20190813_005450495_iOS_sml.jpg20190818_190425732_iOS.jpg20190818_190439745_iOS.jpg

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  5. Top Of Page | #13
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Another bit of advice. When standing and walking on the front crossmember/radiator support, try not to step on your SRS impact sensor or it will end up looking like mine.

    20190818_162840931_iOS_sml.jpg

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  7. Top Of Page | #14
    MOD watersupply189's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Nice writeup and a lot of work you put into it!! That is gonna be one heck of a Fummings!


    2016 Ram Laramie 3500, G56, 6.7, MM3 by Double R Diesel, Rough Country Leveling, 35x12.50 Nitto G2, HID headlights, Morimoto LED fogs plus a whole lot more!

    2016 RAM 3500 4x4 Laramie Crew Cab
    Cummins,G56, Rough Country level, Morimoto LED fog lights, LED headlights, Lund Attitude Steps sprayed with Line-X, DRL's Activated, 35x12.50R18 Falken Wildpeak ATW3, Fuel Vapor Wheels Matte Black w/Dark Tint, A.R.E. Truck cap and swing boxes

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  9. Top Of Page | #15
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    One of the things that I forgot to mention are the issues with the coolant recovery tank. Even with the diesel left hand battery tray and recover tank, there is not enough room because of the larger intake/throttle body system that comes on the 2013 up CR engine. What I have opted to do is trim up the left hand battery tray to delete the bottle completely. I am building a reducing couple that will serve two purposes. One to reduce the top radiator hose from the three inch radiator side to the 2-3/4 inch Cummins side. In the middle of the couple will be a welded on radiator cap fitting. Then hanging off of that I will do a simple non-pressurized recovery tank somewhere. Seems like it should work okay, radiator cap will be at the highest point so it should bleed okay. And again, make sure you keep everything that you take off. In this case I needed the special Ford connectors that go to the radiator. Just trim the retainer ring off and removed the old rubber hose. Then I am going back with good quality worm drive clamps with the new hoses.

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  11. Top Of Page | #16
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Trying to get caught up with progress.

    I was able to get the exhaust system built. Couldn't find a muffler shop in Denver that could do anything with 4" pipe so I broke out the Sawzall and the mig welder to "bend" a piece of pipe to fit. Started by cutting off the muffler and pipe hangers from the original exhaust, relocating the rear hanger bracket (using the same holes but swinging the bracket around to the rear), and massaging them with a torch/hammer. I was able to get the muffler hanging just between the frame and the driveshaft with probably an inch on each side. It may hit one way or the other on the bumps but not worrying about that for now. After getting the muffler hung where I wanted, started on the slicing and forming of the pipe to connect it in. Took a couple times but got a pretty good line up with some tacks then took it back out and welded it up. Not the prettiest job but I think it will hold perfectly.
    20190825_214829061_iOS.jpg20190825_214843322_iOS.jpg

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  13. Top Of Page | #17
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Finally got far enough putting the front together, to work on all of the hoses and pipes. The one issue that I ran in to with the aftermarket intercooler pipe that I bought was getting through the passenger side of the radiator support. What I ended up doing was buying a new Ford factory pipe and cutting a section out and welding the beaded end back on with a little tilt downward. Turned out pretty good but had to have a coupe offset HPS connectors. Forgot that the turbo has a 2.75" outlet and ordered a 3", so another part on the way. And don't forget to torque the T-clamps to ~109 inch/lbs or you will blow the connectors off (SURPRISE!). I had picked up a aftermarket intercooler pipe set for the truck and used a lot of the pieces for my custom config but I did have to buy some additional pieces including a 90 degree reducing connector for the Cummins intake to the 3" aluminum pipe.

    After finally figuring out what all of the plumbing on the engine was for, I now tackled the heater hoses. One of the pipes that looked like a heater pipe was actually the crankcase vent. I am pretty sure that things would have went really sideways if I plumbed that to a coolant line. Turned out pretty easy as soon as I figured out what to do. The only connection that will be an issue in the future is the pipe that would connect to the bottom of the radiator pressure tank. I put a coolant bypass cap on it but those don't usually last very long. I was able to use regular non-molded hose for the connection to the head and a simple generic 90 degree hose for the return pipe.

    For the upper radiator hose, tried to weld my stainless radiator fitting to the hose connector, blew a hole right in the bottom of the area where the cap seals. Now that is trash, nothing saved but the radiator cap. Got online and found someone that had a 1-3/4 connector with filler neck so I got it on the way.Got it installed but still don't know if my plan will work or not. Turns out that the cap is a little lower than the EGR cooling system so now I will just have to test.

    Power steering hose took a trip to The Hose Shop. The Ford V10 hose was my starting point but it was way too long on the metal part of the assembly. The Hose Shop was able to take my cut down hose, weld on a fitting, make a short rubber hydraulic hose, and reattach the end that connects to the pump. Looks mostly like a factory hose and appears to work as it should. As for the low pressure reservoir return line, I started with a new Ford 6.4L hose, cut it in the middle (or so) and used a brass barbed coupler to rotate for the directions that I needed, and clamped it.

    A/C hoses are not in scope right now since winter will be starting, project for next year.

    I do want to call out HPS for having a good variety of pieces and parts that I have needed for this project. Also, it was worth the $130 for the Jegs tubing beader. Not sure it will work on anything heavier than the aluminum tube that I have, but it has been invaluable.

    20190831_012426693_iOS.jpg20190831_012411179_iOS.jpg20190821_213422453_iOS.jpg20190831_012459842_iOS.jpg

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  15. Top Of Page | #18
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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Quote Originally Posted by slax-a-lot View Post
    Finally got far enough putting the front together, to work on all of the hoses and pipes. The one issue that I ran in to with the aftermarket intercooler pipe that I bought was getting through the passenger side of the radiator support. What I ended up doing was buying a new Ford factory pipe and cutting a section out and welding the beaded end back on with a little tilt downward. Turned out pretty good but had to have a coupe offset HPS connectors. Forgot that the turbo has a 2.75" outlet and ordered a 3", so another part on the way. And don't forget to torque the T-clamps to ~109 inch/lbs or you will blow the connectors off (SURPRISE!). I had picked up a aftermarket intercooler pipe set for the truck and used a lot of the pieces for my custom config but I did have to buy some additional pieces including a 90 degree reducing connector for the Cummins intake to the 3" aluminum pipe.

    After finally figuring out what all of the plumbing on the engine was for, I now tackled the heater hoses. One of the pipes that looked like a heater pipe was actually the crankcase vent. I am pretty sure that things would have went really sideways if I plumbed that to a coolant line. Turned out pretty easy as soon as I figured out what to do. The only connection that will be an issue in the future is the pipe that would connect to the bottom of the radiator pressure tank. I put a coolant bypass cap on it but those don't usually last very long. I was able to use regular non-molded hose for the connection to the head and a simple generic 90 degree hose for the return pipe.

    For the upper radiator hose, tried to weld my stainless radiator fitting to the hose connector, blew a hole right in the bottom of the area where the cap seals. Now that is trash, nothing saved but the radiator cap. Got online and found someone that had a 1-3/4 connector with filler neck so I got it on the way.Got it installed but still don't know if my plan will work or not. Turns out that the cap is a little lower than the EGR cooling system so now I will just have to test.

    Power steering hose took a trip to The Hose Shop. The Ford V10 hose was my starting point but it was way too long on the metal part of the assembly. The Hose Shop was able to take my cut down hose, weld on a fitting, make a short rubber hydraulic hose, and reattach the end that connects to the pump. Looks mostly like a factory hose and appears to work as it should. As for the low pressure reservoir return line, I started with a new Ford 6.4L hose, cut it in the middle (or so) and used a brass barbed coupler to rotate for the directions that I needed, and clamped it.

    A/C hoses are not in scope right now since winter will be starting, project for next year.

    I do want to call out HPS for having a good variety of pieces and parts that I have needed for this project. Also, it was worth the $130 for the Jegs tubing beader. Not sure it will work on anything heavier than the aluminum tube that I have, but it has been invaluable.

    20190831_012426693_iOS.jpg20190831_012411179_iOS.jpg20190821_213422453_iOS.jpg20190831_012459842_iOS.jpg
    Looking good so far! Thanks for the update friend!


    2016 Ram Laramie 3500, G56, 6.7, MM3 by Double R Diesel, Rough Country Leveling, 35x12.50 Nitto G2, HID headlights, Morimoto LED fogs plus a whole lot more!

    2016 RAM 3500 4x4 Laramie Crew Cab
    Cummins,G56, Rough Country level, Morimoto LED fog lights, LED headlights, Lund Attitude Steps sprayed with Line-X, DRL's Activated, 35x12.50R18 Falken Wildpeak ATW3, Fuel Vapor Wheels Matte Black w/Dark Tint, A.R.E. Truck cap and swing boxes

  16. Top Of Page | #19
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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Getting the truck far enough along to move it. Still had fueling issues with my plan on using the factory gas in tank pump and also the return line. For simplicity, I went ahead with plan B which was the AirDog Raptor universal pump. I was able to put together a mount just about where the factory gas fuel filter sets in the frame rail. Took some rectangular tube, cut it in half making a C-channel, drilled some holes and mounted it using some homemade u-bolts made out of all-thread. I then removed the filter quick connects from the plastic line and pushed in some brass barbed connectors to attach my multi-fuel hose to. I didn't have enough split loom to cover the wires headed to the front of the truck so I did some temp work until I get what I need. Added another relay (three total - accessory, fuel pump, and onboard air compressor) for the fuel pump. I also put a billet union in line up at the engine for a mechanical fuel gauge. Not something that I can see from the cab, but at least I can keep an eye on it from under the hood. Next I will drop the tank again, and using a bulkhead fitting, add a return line to the top of the pump module. Thought about just using one of the bottom sump adapters but will do that if I need to in the future. If I do that, I will change to a composite tank then as well. Since I am using the vapor line for a return, I will have to make some adjustments to the tank vent. Seems that the diesel tank from the factory puts a mushroom cap on the vent pipe at the tank. I found that Ford has a TSB on the cab and chassis truck of that era stating issues with the accumulation of water/snow/mud on top of the tank allowing moisture in. Their resolution is an extension hose over to the crossmember with a vent cap on it. So I will re-plumb the existing vapor hose to the newly added bulkhead fitting and then put a simple rubber line on the vent over to the crossmember with an axle vent clamped to the end.

    20190902_155623306_iOS.jpg20190902_162550007_iOS_sml.jpg20190902_190915429_iOS.jpg

    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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  18. Top Of Page | #20
    slax-a-lot's Avatar

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    Re: My 2009 Ford F550 Cummins 6.7l Transplant story #1

    Since I am running out of time to get the truck on the road, I continue to make adjustments to the plan. I was still not able to find enough information about transmission tuning the Ford ECM to support the Cummins, so I sprung for the PCS TCM-2800 from DeStroked/GOS Performance. I now have it mounted under the passenger side firewall and connected. I won't bundle up the wires until I have confirmed that all of my inputs and outputs are correct and working. The provided wiring harness has several connections that are not needed so I trimmed those up, sealed them off with some shrink sleeve, and will bundle them up in the loom. After clearing out what I knew for sure wasn't needed, the harness was a little less daunting. I emailed Aden at GOS Performance and he was quick to provide a base config bin file along with some documentation that I needed. After getting the controller wired in and powered up and the PCS tuning software installed, I was off to discover what the controller can do. It was pretty exciting to see what the controller can do even though I won't be using many of the options for this project. The software offers a monitor to watch for each of the inputs and outputs to make sure that things are hooked up correctly. For instance you can see when you shift gears or hit the brakes. The tow/haul doesn't seem to be displayed but that may require the truck to be moving, don't know yet. Some of the options like the manual shift (up and down) and overdrive cancel will be worked on later, I have the wires routed in to the truck but no switches yet. I have ordered a Super Duty 2011+ shift lever that has the shift +/- so that I can shift from there as long as I can get it wired in.

    Hopefully I will get the rest of the wiring done today, then work on the fuel tank this weekend. After that I will have to circle back and do the DPF and DEF deletes to the Cummins ECM. I hope that I can get that figured out before spending more money on a custom tune. I have started trying to learn how to build a EFILive cax file but still not there yet.

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    2009 Ford F550 Flatbed Hauler w/ Cummins 6.7L
    2017 Keystone Avalanche 395BH
    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

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