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Thread: Pulling Truck to street truck

  1. Top Of Page | #1
    Basic Member Larry Selph's Avatar

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    Pulling Truck to street truck

    Short version: Still smokes a fair amount on startup and starts hard unless plugged in... even when it is 60 degrees F out.

    Long version: Been working through my newest bad decision and am looking for some guidance. I wanted a diesel... I wanted a 12v... I wanted something that maybe was rebuilt (fresher is better right). I ended up finding a 97 extended cab with a built engine and trans. I thought because there weren't many miles on the engine and trans it might be easy to "turn down" and make a fun play truck. The body was good except for 1 body mount and a small piece of floor. I paid 7 grand for it thinking I would limp the body through for 2 or 3 years and then transplant everything else into another truck. I basically bought it for the engine. I will start with what it had when I bought it, what I have done so far, and what things I am trying to achieve.

    • 97 extended cab long bed
    • Trans is stock with billet input and output shafts, had a triple disk (I killed it... kids turned on lockup switch and I couldn't figure out why it was being all kinds of weird after trying this and that by the time I realized what had happened it was dead). Now has upgraded TC but not triple. I don't have a 5th wheel or anything I am going to be pulling. Mom and dad's boat will be the heaviest thing it hauls other than that it is dirtbikes and regular light pickup truck stuff
    • Engine has a big cam, upgraded valve springs, arp bolts, gorilla girdle, 55 turbo, fly cut pistons
    • Injection pump is 13mm, full cut delivery valves, 5K springs, bigger cam, does have a fuel plate.
    • 5x25 injectors
    • FASS pump system


    WHAT I'VE DONE SO FAR
    • Compression test I can't remember the specific numbers but they were all very close across all 6
    • I swapped injectors from someone for 380 Hp injectors
    • Took out 5k springs (couldn't get it to idle comfortably without all kinds of lope) put in 4k springs pretty reasonable idle now.
    • Pin timed the injection pump (no idea what the pump is set at)
    • I actually swapped the giant pump for one that was just turned up a little with shims and it fired and idled like a dream.... but wouldn't run at 1300 rpms spit and sputtered.
    • turned down the smoke screw and adjusted the tension on the AFC spring. Smokes a LOT less on startup and blacks out the sunless with reasonable throttle control. Will create a traffic hazard if I put my foot in it at all.
    • Starting: still starts hard, better when plugged in. Fair amount of smoke on startup. When I first drive it stumbles a fair amount from 1300 to 1600 rpms with a good amount of smoke. Above that runs fine. After a couple of miles, it smoothes right out. Idles at 850 ish when started. Once warmed up and not smoking wants to idle at 1200 (finally burning all the fuel it is getting I suppose, or able to burn fuel that is not getting a good spray). Once warmed up not much smoke at all... little haze at idle.


    What's next
    • rethink my habitual need to bite off more than I can chew (but I have learned a lot about this engine and like working on it so probably not)
    • check timing with a gauge. I suspect some of these issues could be linked to it being timed like you would suspect a pulling truck jacked up this much would be. 30 maybe. Bring it back to a reasonable number.
    • Buy brand spanking new injectors.


    My questions are

    What should I shoot for with timing?

    Can I go too small on injectors and delivery valves for this pump? Or if I am going down to reasonable injectors should I also change delivery valves so I am not putting way more fuel than they can spit out. I want to use as much of the capability of the engine without being too smokey and prickish while I am driving.

    I have been doing tons of reading on here over the last year or so and it has been super helpful.

    Sorry, this was so long.

    Let me know your thoughts.


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  3. Top Of Page | #2
    No Vacancy Power247's Avatar

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    Re: Pulling Truck to street truck

    Welcome!! I can't help with any of you issues, but you definitely get a gold star for sticking with it!

    Greg
    2012 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | Custom tuned by Double R Diesel
    2016 | Heartland Pioneer | DS310

    Greg
    2019 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | 6.4 HEMI

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  5. Top Of Page | #3
    DDP's Avatar

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    Re: Pulling Truck to street truck

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Selph View Post
    Short version: Still smokes a fair amount on startup and starts hard unless plugged in... even when it is 60 degrees F out.

    Long version: Been working through my newest bad decision and am looking for some guidance. I wanted a diesel... I wanted a 12v... I wanted something that maybe was rebuilt (fresher is better right). I ended up finding a 97 extended cab with a built engine and trans. I thought because there weren't many miles on the engine and trans it might be easy to "turn down" and make a fun play truck. The body was good except for 1 body mount and a small piece of floor. I paid 7 grand for it thinking I would limp the body through for 2 or 3 years and then transplant everything else into another truck. I basically bought it for the engine. I will start with what it had when I bought it, what I have done so far, and what things I am trying to achieve.

    • 97 extended cab long bed
    • Trans is stock with billet input and output shafts, had a triple disk (I killed it... kids turned on lockup switch and I couldn't figure out why it was being all kinds of weird after trying this and that by the time I realized what had happened it was dead). Now has upgraded TC but not triple. I don't have a 5th wheel or anything I am going to be pulling. Mom and dad's boat will be the heaviest thing it hauls other than that it is dirtbikes and regular light pickup truck stuff
    • Engine has a big cam, upgraded valve springs, arp bolts, gorilla girdle, 55 turbo, fly cut pistons
    • Injection pump is 13mm, full cut delivery valves, 5K springs, bigger cam, does have a fuel plate.
    • 5x25 injectors
    • FASS pump system


    WHAT I'VE DONE SO FAR
    • Compression test I can't remember the specific numbers but they were all very close across all 6
    • I swapped injectors from someone for 380 Hp injectors
    • Took out 5k springs (couldn't get it to idle comfortably without all kinds of lope) put in 4k springs pretty reasonable idle now.
    • Pin timed the injection pump (no idea what the pump is set at)
    • I actually swapped the giant pump for one that was just turned up a little with shims and it fired and idled like a dream.... but wouldn't run at 1300 rpms spit and sputtered.
    • turned down the smoke screw and adjusted the tension on the AFC spring. Smokes a LOT less on startup and blacks out the sunless with reasonable throttle control. Will create a traffic hazard if I put my foot in it at all.
    • Starting: still starts hard, better when plugged in. Fair amount of smoke on startup. When I first drive it stumbles a fair amount from 1300 to 1600 rpms with a good amount of smoke. Above that runs fine. After a couple of miles, it smoothes right out. Idles at 850 ish when started. Once warmed up and not smoking wants to idle at 1200 (finally burning all the fuel it is getting I suppose, or able to burn fuel that is not getting a good spray). Once warmed up not much smoke at all... little haze at idle.


    What's next
    • rethink my habitual need to bite off more than I can chew (but I have learned a lot about this engine and like working on it so probably not)
    • check timing with a gauge. I suspect some of these issues could be linked to it being timed like you would suspect a pulling truck jacked up this much would be. 30 maybe. Bring it back to a reasonable number.
    • Buy brand spanking new injectors.


    My questions are

    What should I shoot for with timing?

    Can I go too small on injectors and delivery valves for this pump? Or if I am going down to reasonable injectors should I also change delivery valves so I am not putting way more fuel than they can spit out. I want to use as much of the capability of the engine without being too smokey and prickish while I am driving.

    I have been doing tons of reading on here over the last year or so and it has been super helpful.

    Sorry, this was so long.

    Let me know your thoughts.
    Man it's been a long time since i have messed with a 12 valve LOL I think stock is around 12-14 and some people will push it to around 16-18 max on a somewhat modified truck. I know alot of issues can come from timing for sure. i would start backing down slowly and see how she acts but don't go below 13. 18 should keep that truck happy but every build and truck can be different.

    Depending on the sizes i would change out delivery valves along with injectors. Just like you said you dont want to adjust one and not the other otherwise its for nothing more or less.

    12 valves are always going to be smokey when adding more power no matter what so just keep that in mind.

    A little haze at idle is normal with bigger injectors and what not.

    Depending on how your TC is set up will depend on how it will react on the road. It may not be shifting properly depending on how you had it set up.

    Don't quote me on this because it has been awhile LOL and i will need to see if i can dig around to find my old 12 valve build for reference.

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  6. Top Of Page | #4
    Basic Member Larry Selph's Avatar

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    Re: Pulling Truck to street truck

    I think the pump is 16mm. Not sure why I put 13 in the original post.

    Will the bigger cam in the injection pump affect the method for doing timing by measuring the travel on the first delivery port. I have seen injection pump cams that say same amount of travel but different profile which is a different lobe shape and would thus affect the mm of travel during rotation.

    Also if this thing is delivery crazy amounts of fuel can I hurt it by turning down the timing.

    I am going to try taking the timing to 18 this weekend and see what happens. I am wondering if the reason the other injection pump started and idles so nice was it was timed more reasonably. Not sure why I couldn't get it above 1300 rpms maybe the smaller pump couldn't feed the big injectors enough? Maybe I have a lighter spring in my AFC so the fuel can keep up with the rpms while the turbo lags to build enough pressure to open up the fuel through the afc. no idea... maybe I will have more of an idea after this weekend.

    If anyone has any insight I would love to hear it. Expecially before I go making a bad change and breaking something.


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