2006 standard wont start. mechanic says "secondary fuel pump" ?

[Classy-or-nasty]

Last week I had parked my truck all day to go kyaking just as soon as my fuel light had turned on. when i returned, she cranked for about five seconds and died off. repeated this on second crank followed by no cranking. I towed it to my friends house where i proceded to add about six gallons to the tank and bleed the injectors expecting i meerly vapor locked it (which i still believe is the core cause of my grief.) When she still did not crank i ran through the process a couple more times to no prevail.
I tired either once, which did nothing to get the engine under its own power, then checked to see if the filter chamber was getting fuel by cravking it open and turning the engine over. it was. when it got to the point i was smelling raw fuel out of the exhaust, i took it to a mechanic. he tried a couple ideas before finally getting a reading from his scanner saying secondary fuel pump. the man swears it is the injection pump, but when i look up "secondary fuel pump 06 cummins" it continuously brings up the lift pump. I am trying to figure which one it is before i go drop 1200 on a new CP3. any ideas?!
She is a 2006 ram with six speed G56 and a second gen swaped manifold, afe intake horn and heater grid delete, and 4" downpipe to 5"exhaust with a ram air style intake.
Any help is much appreciated!!

 0 Comment(s)

[AnOldBiker]

I'm not well experienced on these yet, but the last I read the lift pump puts a constant supply to the CP3. This keep a good supply of fuel to the system. Then the CP3 brings the entire system up to a good pressure to maintain proper supply with a good return flow to the tank. If the lift pump dies, you can still run the truck because the CP3 can pull from the tank and feed the injectors. Driving has to be limited since there will not be enough pressure supplied by the CP3 if WOT. But can get you home or to help with calm driving. So if your seeing fuel and pressure before the CP3, say from your original fuel filter housing drain, then I'd say you really need to check your CP3 condition. Running it low on fuel tank level a few times and loosing fuel supply and pressure the CP3 should screw it up. That is why I never go below a 1/4 tank and have pressure indication of the fuel system to monitor.

But if I'm wrong, hang in there and someone will kick in soon.

 0 Comment(s)

[Polaraco]

Last week I had parked my truck all day to go kyaking just as soon as my fuel light had turned on. when i returned, she cranked for about five seconds and died off. repeated this on second crank followed by no cranking. I towed it to my friends house where i proceded to add about six gallons to the tank and bleed the injectors expecting i meerly vapor locked it (which i still believe is the core cause of my grief.) When she still did not crank i ran through the process a couple more times to no prevail.
I tired either once, which did nothing to get the engine under its own power, then checked to see if the filter chamber was getting fuel by cravking it open and turning the engine over. it was. when it got to the point i was smelling raw fuel out of the exhaust, i took it to a mechanic. he tried a couple ideas before finally getting a reading from his scanner saying secondary fuel pump. the man swears it is the injection pump, but when i look up "secondary fuel pump 06 cummins" it continuously brings up the lift pump. I am trying to figure which one it is before i go drop 1200 on a new CP3. any ideas?!
She is a 2006 ram with six speed G56 and a second gen swaped manifold, afe intake horn and heater grid delete, and 4" downpipe to 5"exhaust with a ram air style intake.
Any help is much appreciated!!

I'm not well experienced on these yet, but the last I read the lift pump puts a constant supply to the CP3. This keep a good supply of fuel to the system. Then the CP3 brings the entire system up to a good pressure to maintain proper supply with a good return flow to the tank. If the lift pump dies, you can still run the truck because the CP3 can pull from the tank and feed the injectors. Driving has to be limited since there will not be enough pressure supplied by the CP3 if WOT. But can get you home or to help with calm driving. So if your seeing fuel and pressure before the CP3, say from your original fuel filter housing drain, then I'd say you really need to check your CP3 condition. Running it low on fuel tank level a few times and loosing fuel supply and pressure the CP3 should screw it up. That is why I never go below a 1/4 tank and have pressure indication of the fuel system to monitor.

But if I'm wrong, hang in there and someone will kick in soon.

Bravo You're right pop!

The "Secondary pump" pump is in the tank on the 06. CP3 is the primary. That's commonly called a lift pump. But let's test it.

Check the fuse. If the fuse is blown, it's a no brainer. Good thing there is less than 10 gallons.
Get a new fuel filter. Just in case. Loosen the top of the fuel filter Not too far, but enough for it to leak fuel. Slide a catch pan under the truck. If you can get a snd person, have him tap the starter with the key and watch for fuel leaking out. If there is fuel, then we have to look elsewhere.

Did that mechanic happen to have the forsite to see if there was any rail pressure?

Let me know and we'll go from there. It's hard without a scan tool

 0 Comment(s)

[Classy-or-nasty]

Well I tried crackin the filter top. That gushed fuel. We did not however have a way to check rail pressure. I have a good pro fuel psi gage but last couple weeks, it had been jumping around and flashing color as if it were shorting so I dod not trust the reading it gave (jumping from 5-10)

 0 Comment(s)

[AnOldBiker]

If your trying to see if the lift pump is pushing fuel, I check through the original fuel filter housing ... 'if it is still there'. Remove the filter and put the cap back on, open the drain and make sure it's tubed to a bucket, key the ignition to the 'ON' position (don't start truck) and let run for 3 to 5 seconds. If the lift pump is good, you will have a good flow of fuel under a decent pressure going to the pail. (it will not be a high pressure since it's draining and not in an enclosed system building pressure) But is a good indication of the condition of the lift pump.

 0 Comment(s)

[Classy-or-nasty]

Then I reckon it must be the injection. The canister runs over like crazy with the key on.

 0 Comment(s)

[AnOldBiker]

If your getting a good flow and pressure, your lift pump should be good.
But I'd verify the rail pressure before starting spending money on injectors.

How 'bout someone like: @AccurateDiesel @Double R Diesel @Diesel Dawgs Performance

... anyone ?? ..... some help please ....

 0 Comment(s)

[AccurateDiesel]

I believe from what has been done so far we can establish that the lift pump is working sufficiently that the truck should start. As has been mentioned previously, the next step is to determine if there is sufficient rail pressure - 5,000 PSI minimum. Without knowing that we really cannot move forward with any kind of a coherent diagnosis. A scan tool will need to be bought or borrowed.

If there is less than 5,000 PSI, do NOT automatically buy a CP3 pump (which we can supply for about 1/2 the price you mentioned by the way). More often, in the case of low rail pressure, the issue is an injector or connector tube leaking to much fuel to return - not the CP3. Many many CP3's are replaced in vain that are not bad - be careful here.

If you get a low rail pressure reading then let me know and we can discuss the next steps to diagnose. If rail pressure is over 5,000 then it is a whole different ball game - electrical issues, etc.

Don't let anyone tell you there is a code that can tell you the CP3 pump needs to be replaced - that is simply factually inaccurate. Further mechanical testing is needed to verify what is actually the problem!

Let me know if we can help.

 0 Comment(s)

[Classy-or-nasty]

I believe from what has been done so far we can establish that the lift pump is working sufficiently that the truck should start. As has been mentioned previously, the next step is to determine if there is sufficient rail pressure - 5,000 PSI minimum. Without knowing that we really cannot move forward with any kind of a coherent diagnosis. A scan tool will need to be bought or borrowed.

If there is less than 5,000 PSI, do NOT automatically buy a CP3 pump (which we can supply for about 1/2 the price you mentioned by the way). More often, in the case of low rail pressure, the issue is an injector or connector tube leaking to much fuel to return - not the CP3. Many many CP3's are replaced in vain that are not bad - be careful here.

If you get a low rail pressure reading then let me know and we can discuss the next steps to diagnose. If rail pressure is over 5,000 then it is a whole different ball game - electrical issues, etc.

Don't let anyone tell you there is a code that can tell you the CP3 pump needs to be replaced - that is simply factually inaccurate. Further mechanical testing is needed to verify what is actually the problem!

Let me know if we can help.

well we tried a scan with my buddies computer but rail pressure showed n/a. Worried tf out of me until we hooked it up to his 07 5.9 and he got the same read. More likely that the scanner can not read it. What would be an alternate way to test the rail pressure??

 0 Comment(s)

[Polaraco]

You could crack an injector line
@AccurateDiesel Tim what is that electric valve on the CP3? My memory isn't working well. If I recall correctly, if that failed, you'd get the same thing.

My noodle is getting worse. I even forgot where I parked my Hugo

 0 Comment(s)