Turbo and exhaust manifold replacement

[wkb1984]

Well, after a couple years of fighting with my turbo, it finally needs to be replaced. I have a 2015 2500 with a manual transmission that I ordered new straight from the factory. I deleted it very shortly after I got it and immediately started having really bad VGT surging issues. I have AFE 5” TBE, AFE intake, and a RaceMe Ultra. I started out with the RaceMe tunes. After fighting with the surging for a while, I took it to two different shops in town and they both told me the same thing. It was a tuning issue. I contacted RaceMe and when back and forth with them for months. Updated my tuner, retuned, downloaded new files, it felt like 50 times each! I came across a couple others with similar issues and realized that we all had the manual transmission in common. I mentioned that to RaceMe and they sent out new tunes. That, however did not work. RaceMe finally just told me that the problem was my truck. I was devastated, because despite the issues, I love my truck! It was the first truck I ever custom ordered! It has everything I want and nothing I don’t. Anyway, about the time RaceMe gave up on me, Ray at double R was getting the software to custom tune the RaceMe tuners. I linked up with him and he worked patiently with me through a couple different versions until he got me a tune that worked for me. However, now my turbo needs to be replaced. After a few minutes of driving the VGT stops moving as commanded. My local shop says replace the turbo and recommended the Fleece cheetah, so that is my plan. They recommend replacing my exhaust manifold while the turbo is off. They say the stock manifold has a tendency to crack around 150,000 miles. I am nowhere near that mileage, but I want to keep my truck for a long time.

I know that was a lot to write just to ask one question, but...
Is this a legitimate concern and worth the additional $600 to replace the manifold that is not giving me issues yet? I know there are some other benefits to the upgraded manifold, but I am on a very tight budget and it is about breaking the bank just replacing the turbo. Can anyone confirm the cracking manifold claim?

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[easymon]

I had 550,000 on my 13 never cracked there are always that chance I suppose. If money is tight just do turbo is my opinion. We can throw money on the what if all day long at these trucks .

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[Western]

I can not confirm or deny the cracking issue. I do know that if you replace it with a 3rd gen manifold it flows better, gives you an already tapped port for an egt sensor, eliminates the egr block off plates, cleans up the engine bay alot. If you are on a tight budget i couldnt tell you exactly what to do. I have just replaced my VGT and exhaust manifold with an industrial injection silver bullet 64 with a BD 3rd gen manifold new gaskets and all.

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[wkb1984]

I am dropping about $3k already so really $600 isn’t much compared to that. I do like the idea of it, I just wanted to make sure they weren’t just trying to up sell me. I do plan on doing more mods later that would increase power a bit more and also increase temps, so maybe it would be safer to replace it and save a little time by doing it while the turbo is off. Am I taking myself into something I don’t need?


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[Western]

I am dropping about $3k already so really $600 isn’t much compared to that. I do like the idea of it, I just wanted to make sure they weren’t just trying to up sell me. I do plan on doing more mods later that would increase power a bit more and also increase temps, so maybe it would be safer to replace it and save a little time by doing it while the turbo is off. Am I taking myself into something I don’t need?


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You might be. Having already have replaced the turbo on my truck myself i know it can be a pain in the a$$. When i went to remove it the bolts had seized onto the exhaust manifold so i had to pull them togeather (very heavy with one arm). No keep in mind my truck had 144k miles when i did it so it could just be a one case basis. But replacing it while your already in there is nice.

What kind of mods do you plan on doing later on?

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[TexNeck]

If you are hellbent on the cheetah I personally would not swap the stock manifold. I have heard of these cracking before but I don't think it is a consistent issue. If it does crack you can still temporarily drive it until you need a replacement (if at all)

If you have some power goals later one I would go with a second gen swap. I have been looking as my stock charger is headed out. The Cheetah Turbo is expensive and will fail at some point since it is a VGT charger (electronics). For the same money as purchasing just the drop in turbo you can get into a second gen kit. These kits include new turbo, manifold, down pipe, oil lines, and boots. It may seem like it is a lot of parts but it can be done in an afternoon by yourself with an understanding of basic nuts and bolts.

The second gen manifold style improves exhaust flow since the outlet is centered on the head. And the fixed turbos are tried and true as they come. The Borg SXE series flow like crazy so you can get a smaller charger that flows similar to one that is 2-4mm larger. Ray has done this on his truck and recommends it so his tuning/knoweldge on this setup are fantastic. With about a 66mm you would be looking at 600-650 hp if your CP3 is a strong one.

Keep us posted with what you are going to do!

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[wkb1984]

I am definitely not hellbent on anything. I was gonna go with the cheetah because I thought it would be my cheapest option and I could keep my exhaust brake. I also thought I could use the tuning I already have on the cheetah. Apparently that is not the case. I guess I have to get it retuned if I put the cheetah in. So that puts me at about $3000 for just turbo and tuning. I haven’t done much research on the 2nd gen swap, but initially I think I saw kits starting at $2500 that didn’t even come with a turbo.


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[Western]

Here is what I am doing on my truck. So when my turbo started going out I started researching. I decided I wanted to go with a compound setup in the long run. So i started doing research on that and found Industrial Injection made thr best compound kits for these trucks. So I called them and found out I could go with a silver bullet 64 kit they make (turbo,exhaust manifold, gaskets and all seals etc. From @dudesdieselperformance for about 2600) I have it installed and love it!! And later when im ready i just put the larger one in with their kit.

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[TexNeck]

I am definitely not hellbent on anything. I was gonna go with the cheetah because I thought it would be my cheapest option and I could keep my exhaust brake. I also thought I could use the tuning I already have on the cheetah. Apparently that is not the case. I guess I have to get it retuned if I put the cheetah in. So that puts me at about $3000 for just turbo and tuning. I haven’t done much research on the 2nd gen swap, but initially I think I saw kits starting at $2500 that didn’t even come with a turbo.


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What is your hp goal for the truck?

My .02 after thinking and researching a lot. Most of us buy a Cummins for the reliability. VGT turbos are going to go bad at some point. Fixed geometry turbos have very little issues if going with a decent brand.

option 1- buy used stock VGT charger - they can be had for about $500-800. There are some posted in the sale section of this forum. This is the cheapest. Same issues will occur.

option 2- second gen swap- this is popular for the reasons mentioned before. Rays video is here 550hp setup from adding turbo and manifold on stock fuel- great info. This same setup he hit over 700 hp by adding fuel- head studs recommended but back pressure is consistently 1:1 so 30lbs + of boost can be ran without worrying like a VGT housing. Negative here- no exhaust brake

Youtube - 2017 DRD 2nd gen swap - this video he drives it on the road and discusses the benefits

kit on his truck here

https://www.xtremediesel.com/hs-moto...sx-e-turbo-kit

Clayton will hook you up with a kit like this that has all needed

option 3 compounds - Compounds are great if you are at high altitude or tow heavy frequently. Negative to these are you still have VGT charger and you now have another charger and other parts for failure . You also will need to tweak ac components to make room in the engine bay - VGT chargers don’t flow well so head studs should be installed due to added back pressure regardless

option 4- cheetah - you know already the deal with this - more performance relative to stock but head studs definitely needed and to watch EGTs. VGT will fail at some point. Pro for this is little more power and keep exhaust brake

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[jtrakel]

First post but I figure I'd chime in at some point. I also am having issues with my stock VGT turbo and have recently pulled the trigger on a 3rd gen swap vs the 2nd gen. A lot cheaper and from the research I've conducted most aftermarket 3rd gen manifolds flow about the same as the 2nd gens. I also wanted to keep my exhaust brake but going the 3rd gen route saves me about $1k over the 2nd gen swap which I plan to apply towards a BD or PAC exhaust brake later down the road. Funny you had issues with your G56 and tuning on the MM3 as I also had a lot of problems with my truck over fueling while shifting and ditched the MM3/WARP tuning all together. I ended up going back to EFI live with Anarchy diesel and things seem to be going well, I'm excited to see how things go with my new set-up. Below is kit I went with if interested, the owner was awesome to talk with and I like supporting small, honest businesses! - Cheers!

http://www.mdcdiesel.com/product-p/6.7-s366-3g-t4.htm

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