Thanks Thanks:  23
Likes Likes:  91
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40

Thread: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

  1. Top Of Page | #11
    No Vacancy Power247's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    I really like this topic and ones like it. There are so many performance mods available for these trucks that it is a struggle to understand which ones add value at certain parts of a build.

    Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

    Greg
    2012 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | Custom tuned by Double R Diesel
    2016 | Heartland Pioneer | DS310

    Greg
    2019 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | 6.4 HEMI

  2. Thanks Muskiebri, wildcoyote thanked for this post
    Likes Snow Dodge, walla2k5, Muskiebri liked this post
  3. Top Of Page | #12
    Muskiebri's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Power247 View Post
    I really like this topic and ones like it. There are so many performance mods available for these trucks that it is a struggle to understand which ones add value at certain parts of a build.

    Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

    Greg
    I am very thankful for what Ray @Double R Diesel has done with his dyno in his videos. He takes care of us! He's laid down a bit of a roadmap to follow. I've charted it up below. Maybe we can get Ray to remove the GDP intake and re-run test #6 with the stock intake!!

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Muskiebri; 02-13-2018 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Typo in Chart

  4. Likes Power247, Snow Dodge, walla2k5 liked this post
  5. Top Of Page | #13
    Muskiebri's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Muskiebri View Post
    I am very thankful for what Ray @Double R Diesel has done with his dyno in his videos. He takes care of us! He's laid down a bit of a roadmap to follow. I've charted it up below. Maybe we can get Ray to remove the GDP intake and re-run test #6 with the stock intake!!
    There's a typo in the first chart (CP4) and I couldn't figure out how to delete that chart. So I added a second chart. Sorry about that.


  6. Likes Power247, Snow Dodge, walla2k5 liked this post
  7. Top Of Page | #14
    Muskiebri's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Here's a more painful way to look at it... I included the estimated part cost on these mods.



    Plus a graph that shows how much money you have to spend to get a certain power gain over stock.



    The graph is pretty linear. It's based on prices on DRD's website. You have to think about as if you have a stock truck and you want to achieve a certain goal. You spend $20-$30 per HP gained. But the curve gets steeper the higher you go (like almost everything in life). If you want to add 200 HP, you pay about 200x$22/HP=$4,400. You can spend a lot more than that per HP gained if you buy stuff that doesn't do much on a dyno... My plan is to stay on Ray's roadmap.


  8. Likes Power247, Snow Dodge, walla2k5 liked this post
  9. Top Of Page | #15
    Whitewolf's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    I'm glad this post started. I want to change the intake this summer, but am not really sure I should spend the $'s. Truck has been deleted, tuned and a 5" turbo back exhaust installed. I don't race or offroad and I don't plan to. I drive and I tow. Mostly our 12K fifth wheel and other equipment. I've done the 'air out' thing and it only makes sense to me to do the 'air in' thing. I'm not after HP, but if it happens, that's a nice side note. I want this engine to breath in and fart out all it can. Can't get rid of the grid heater, and I know that's a restriction. Maybe I'll eventually swap it out for a Shibby or GDP heater. Thoughts?


  10. Thanks Muskiebri thanked for this post
    Likes Snow Dodge, Muskiebri, walla2k5 liked this post
  11. Top Of Page | #16
    Basic Member 9mgcb81's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitewolf View Post
    I'm glad this post started. I want to change the intake this summer, but am not really sure I should spend the $'s. Truck has been deleted, tuned and a 5" turbo back exhaust installed. I don't race or offroad and I don't plan to. I drive and I tow. Mostly our 12K fifth wheel and other equipment. I've done the 'air out' thing and it only makes sense to me to do the 'air in' thing. I'm not after HP, but if it happens, that's a nice side note. I want this engine to breath in and fart out all it can. Can't get rid of the grid heater, and I know that's a restriction. Maybe I'll eventually swap it out for a Shibby or GDP heater. Thoughts?
    Shibby intake with his heater would give best bang for the buck, results and clean look. The heater is a nice design that works far better than stock garbage

    Talk to Clayton he sells Shibby now
    Dudes Diesel Performance


  12. Thanks Muskiebri thanked for this post
    Likes Snow Dodge, Muskiebri, walla2k5 liked this post
  13. Top Of Page | #17
    Muskiebri's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitewolf View Post
    I'm glad this post started. I want to change the intake this summer, but am not really sure I should spend the $'s. Truck has been deleted, tuned and a 5" turbo back exhaust installed. I don't race or offroad and I don't plan to. I drive and I tow. Mostly our 12K fifth wheel and other equipment. I've done the 'air out' thing and it only makes sense to me to do the 'air in' thing. I'm not after HP, but if it happens, that's a nice side note. I want this engine to breath in and fart out all it can. Can't get rid of the grid heater, and I know that's a restriction. Maybe I'll eventually swap it out for a Shibby or GDP heater. Thoughts?
    I spent some time tonight staring at the plumbing and restriction in the entire intake system. I see relatively small tubing going to and from the cooler, multiple bends in the plumbing, the cooler itself, the intake manifold, and the grid heater. In my opinion, the intake manifold does not stand out like a sore thumb, as THE bottleneck in that system. But it is something that's easy to change out. I would love to pull each component off the truck and flow test them in our lab. I'd be VERY surprised if the stock intake manifold adds any debilitating pressure drop for a truck making "only" 400-450 rwhp.

    Based on data from a few different websites, the stock intake manifold seems to flow about 500 cfm at 10" water restriction. If 1000 cfm is WOT when you're making 500 hp (I'm guessing, I'd need to look this up), the restriction of the stock intake is around 20" of water (or 0.7 psi) at that flow. Restriction is pretty linear unless there's some crazy turbulence going on above a certain flow rate. If you're producing 35 psi of boost and only have a 0.7 psi pressure drop in the stock manifold, replacing the stock manifold with one that's marketed as having "half the restriction!!"(or 0.35 psi), it's not going to be noticeable on a dyno, in the seat of your pants, or at the pump. Again, at 400-600 HP. IMHO. It's all about pumping losses. See the attached chart below. At 20" of water head (less than 2 ft of head), look at how much horsepower is being robbed. It's so close to the origin, you can't discern if the loss is 0.005 or 0.01 HP.

    I'd be totally happy if someone proves me wrong with data. But to me, it just doesn't make sense to spend the money, hoping for some measurable gain at these power levels.

    It looks really cool. I like it. It's easy to talk yourself into getting one, because it's not that expensive and it is an improvement. It's a building block for those of us that just can't stop spending money on mods (guilty as charged), and want to go for bigger and bigger power. But it's kinda like buying a solar panel at Walmart - it will probably never pay itself off. LOL. But it's probably a better investment than a cold air intake... Uh oh.. Now I did it.

    Brian




  14. Likes Power247, walla2k5 liked this post
  15. Top Of Page | #18
    Muskiebri's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Muskiebri View Post
    Based on data from a few different websites, the stock intake manifold seems to flow about 500 cfm at 10" water restriction. If 1000 cfm is WOT when you're making 500 hp (I'm guessing, I'd need to look this up), the restriction of the stock intake is around 20" of water (or 0.7 psi) at that flow. If you're producing 35 psi of boost and only have a 0.7 psi pressure drop in the stock manifold, replacing the stock manifold with one that's marketed as having "half the restriction!!"(or 0.35 psi), it's not going to be noticeable on a dyno, in the seat of your pants, or at the pump.
    Just a follow up... I looked up some engine test data to check my previous statement and chatted with a couple engine guys (I'm more involved in filtration). Some engine results are in the chart below. On one engine, at 535 hp, intake flow was 977 CFM. Bottom line, I'm convinced that if your goal is making power (any level of power), the intake manifold restriction just doesn't matter much at all. For big turbo upgrades (50-70 psi boost), you're compressing the volume by >3-4X, and the impact of this relatively small intake manifold dP on this reduced volume is negligible. There are still other benefits like cooler running turbos. Power and torque aren't everything, but almost. Fuel economy effects are very difficult to prove statistically.

    Lastly, notice in the chart that exhaust flow is about 2X intake flow. So looking at "air out" before "air in" makes sense to me.



    2014 Laramie 2500 CCSB - DRD MM3 Tuning, H&S SX-E 66mm Turbo Kit (DRD Giveaway #2), RevMax VB, Goerend Low Stall Converter & Billet Input Shaft, CA625 Head Studs, Custom Offsets MKW M95 Wheels, Nitto 11.5x35-R20 Ridge Grapplers, Carbon Fiber Vinyl Wrapped Rockers, Wrapped Bumpers & Grille, Thuren Springs & Swaybar, Phantom Sun Light Bar, Westin Rear Booster Pods, Retroshop HIDs & Fogs & Backup LEDs, Wireless Air Lift 5000, Flo-Pro 4" SST Exhaust, FTEDiesel 30" resonator, AMP Bed Step, Rebadged, Truxport Tonneau, Undercoated, Alpine Sub & Amp, and more. Matt 22:37, Proverbs 16:24

  16. Likes walla2k5, Power247 liked this post
  17. Top Of Page | #19
    TH-64's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Makes sense, but the "it looks cool" factor is very important. LOL. I did the BD intercooler, pipes, and horn,along with a GDP grid delete. Prolly didn't need any of it. Hahaha. The VGT is always the limiting factor. Big horsepower is a ways down the road for me.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    2012 CCSB Saddle Brown Pearl... DRD tuned

  18. Thanks Muskiebri thanked for this post
    Likes Muskiebri, walla2k5, Power247 liked this post
  19. Top Of Page | #20
    Basic Member

    User Info Menu

    Re: Air Intake Manifold upgrade - at what point is it really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Muskiebri View Post
    But it's probably a better investment than a cold air intake... Uh oh.. Now I did it.

    Brian
    I'll go one further. The CAI is a negative. Between zero gains, and the extra dirt in your engine, they are a constant drain. Here's my turbo hose that I changed out. It had dirt deposits on the walls that were thick enough to flake off when scraped with a fingernail. Stock intake is going back on.



    764730d1517897636-what-did-you-do-your-3rd-gen-today-13e6368a-c249-4fdc-a437-a4af9e973135.jpg


  20. Thanks Muskiebri thanked for this post
    Likes Muskiebri, walla2k5, Power247 liked this post
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •