Torque converter / transmission supplier research

**Muskiebri** · 03-23-2017

Originally Posted by RATLIN'HP

So I just looked and I see Goerend does make a triple disc converter, and you can get a variety of stall speeds. Looks like they make a flex plate, a deep pan, and a few other things for the 68 also. Gonna have to check with them to see if they ever have plans for a high flow valve body though. Didn't see that offered. But if they ever do that'd be awesome!

Yep. I'm waiting for a call back from them to answer some valve body questions. Their web pricing is about the same as RevMax (I wonder why.....???? LOL). I think I can get better prices through my local tranny shop. That's good business management though.

68RFE Converters: http://goerend.com/goerend-triple-di...ummins-2007-5/
68RFE VB's: http://goerend.com/goerend-transmiss...d-gm-solenoid/

Excerpts from Goerend.com:

Goerend 2007.5+ 6.7L Cummins Converters:

All Goerend converters were developed using a chassis dyno, transmission dyno, and extensive testing on live trucks.

FEATURES: •Triple Disc Converter •Billet front cover •Billet Damper •If purchased with a Limited Lifetime Warranty: price includes 1 FREE Stall Change (within the first year to the original owner)

Choose Your Stall Speed:
15SS:
The most versatile converter offered. It is loose enough to spool most turbos, in most elevations and climates, while maximizing low end grunt and keeping the torque converter tight enough when the turbo lights and horsepower is being made. This converter should go in trucks that TOW and WORK HARD. Approximately 200-400 RPM lower than a stock converter.
This converter works well with: •Stock turbos from 0 to 11,000 foot elevation •2nd generation dodges (0 to 4,000 foot elevation) with stock to 58mm turbos •3rd generation dodges (0 to 4,000 foot elevation) with stock to 62mm turbos

We have many other options for stall speeds if none of these fit your application. Please call us to discuss (563) 778-2719

Some other billet components (input shaft caught my eye, made partly by Sonnax):

http://goerend.com/dodge/billet-shafts/

0 Comment(s)

**RATLIN'HP** · 03-23-2017

Their valve bodies on the website stop at 2007 though making me think they don't offer one for the 68

0 Comment(s)

**Muskiebri** · 03-23-2017

Originally Posted by RATLIN'HP

Their valve bodies on the website stop at 2007 though making me think they don't offer one for the 68

Yeah, that's what I left a voice mail asking about. My transmission repair shop is supposed to be talking to Dave as well. We should hear back soon.

0 Comment(s)

**Muskiebri** · 03-23-2017

Originally Posted by Muskiebri

Yeah, that's what I left a voice mail asking about. My transmission repair shop is supposed to be talking to Dave as well. We should hear back soon.

Originally Posted by RATLIN'HP

Their valve bodies on the website stop at 2007 though making me think they don't offer one for the 68

Just heard back from ATS in Janesville. You are correct, Goerend doesn't offer a VB for the 68RFE. Hate to even pass this along, but Goerend told ATS that RevMax makes the best VB out there.... Grr.... Gotta dance with the devil on that I guess... But boy did I hear a lot of good things about his converters. The Allison guys love them, is what I was told.

As it sits right now, I'm leaning toward the Goerend converter (with 1 free stall speed adjustment if needed - part of their lifetime warranty), plus a Goerend billet input shaft, plus the RevMax VB.

ATS of Janesville is putting a quote together to do the work for me, cuz they can get the converter cheaper than I can.

P.S. (editing after the fact) - I forgot to mention that ATS said they can install the billet input shaft in about an hour. So the labor is not gonna kill me like I thought. Someone else told me that it's a pretty big tear up to install the input shaft, so I was previously not going to do that. I changed my mind. Peace of mind.

0 Comment(s)

**Muskiebri** · 03-23-2017

Originally Posted by Muskiebri

- Per RevMax, the stall speed does NOT increase for a given transmission as you increase flywheel HP (that's not what others on message boards are saying)
- Per RevMax, it doesn't matter how much power you make, or what your gear ratio is, or what your tire size is - these should not be factors when selecting stall speed
- Per RevMax, the only thing that matters is your turbo and how fast it spools (big, slow spooling turbos, go with a little higher stall speed to prevent lag issues)

FYI, explanation of converter stall speed from Goerend's website FAQ's below. This is what I've been told by every converter manufacturer EXCEPT RevMax (see above, what RevMax said). I'm starting to think RevMax knows more about VB's than converters.

Excerpt from http://goerend.com/frequently-asked-questions/#P

What is stall speed? Stall speed is the highest rpm (engine revolutions per minute) that the engine can achieve while you are IN GEAR NOT MOVING WITH THE THROTTLE HELD TO THE FLOOR.
(WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS TEST AS IT CAN DAMAGE MANY THINGS)

What determines the stall speed?
The 2 major things that determine the stall speed are the engine torque and the torque converter. Here are a few different ways to think about it:
Lets say you are on an exercise bike that uses a large fan for the “load”. The smaller the fan the faster you can pedal it, the larger the fan the harder it is to pedal it so your max rpm would be slower. Lets say with a small fan you can do 200 rpm and no faster, that means your “stall speed” is 200 rpm. With the large fan lets say you can only petal it 50 rpm, the larger fan stalled you at 50 rpm with the same person on the bike, 2 different fans, 2 different stall speeds.
Now, lets put a different person on the bike, how about a bodybuilder with huge legs. With the big fan this person may be able to petal 100 rpm as opposed to your 50, same fan different person to liken this to the engine and converter you have to remember that the converter is nothing more than 2 fans, one fan is connected to the engine and the other is connected to the transmission. The fan that is connected to the engine blows oil at the transmission fan and when it blows enough oil at it the transmission fan will start to rotate and the vehicle starts to move. In this scenario with the engine and converter the same is true if you install a converter with “bigger fans”, the stall rpm will be lower with smaller fans the stall rpm will be higher if you add horsepower to the engine (just like the bodybuilder) the stall rpm goes up.
Now lets talk about air, its all about the air, or oxygen. The person on the bike can pedal harder at sea level than on the top of a mountain because they can breathe better because there is more oxygen at the lower elevation... The air is more dense, same with the engine. The engine is nothing more than an air pump that uses fuel, the fuel MUST burn, expand and push the piston down. You MUST have oxygen to burn the fuel, the higher the elevation, the less oxygen we have so the less fuel we can inject. Less fuel means lower power into the converter and hence a lower stall speed. Normally the higher in elevation you are the higher the stall speed you need. The engine turbocharger also can make a huge difference, the turbo is also a set of fans, the drive fan is located in the exhaust of the engine and the exhaust flow makes this fan spin. The driven fan of the turbo is connected to the drive fan and sits in the intake side of the engine and forces fresh air (more oxygen) into the engine so we can burn all the fuel or burn more fuel to get more power. When you have a turbo with bigger ”fans“ it takes longer to “spool” them up or in other words it takes longer for the turbo to spin up and start to blow more air (oxygen) into the engine. If it takes longer to spin up it takes longer to get the extra oxygen needed into the cylinders to burn the fuel, this is called turbo lag

Goerend Converter video:

0 Comment(s)

**Power247** · 03-23-2017

0 Comment(s)

**Muskiebri** · 03-24-2017

More from Goerend's website. This converter decision matrix is a little dated, but illustrates a thought process that can help someone pick the right stall speed for their application:

It points me to the 15SS (15 blade, low stall, -300 to -400 rpm vs stock).

Goerend converter decision matrix.jpg

http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-udarjs...0.1280.jpg?c=2

0 Comment(s)

**Muskiebri** · 03-24-2017

Bit the bullet today. Enough research.

I ended up getting the 15SS converter and TCS 68RFE billet input shaft from Dave Goerend, and the valve body from RevMax.

The converter is the 15 blade, low stall version (-300 to -400 rpm vs stock). The valve body is the only one RevMax offers, the HD/High Perf model. My tranny shop is going to install it all for me, along with APR 625 head studs.

I’ve been a little hard on RevMax, so I want to pass this along. When I called RevMax, I had a nice conversation with Tom and was treated very well. I learned that RevMax and Goerend actually have a good business relationship (Bob Goerend told me that too). Goerend sends 68RFE work RevMax’s way and RevMax said they do the same on the 47RE and 48RE. Tom even gave me a 5% discount on a valve body and billet filter adapter.

I’ll be able to report back on how this combo works in 3 or 4 weeks.

Thanks for following along. I hope this thread had some value to a few of you.

Thanks,
Brian

0 Comment(s)

**Power247** · 03-25-2017

0 Comment(s)

**Noneck** · 03-25-2017

Thanks Brian. I emailed revmax yesterday after reading thru this thread and the goerend page. I was considering doing the same as you with goerend convertor and Revmax vb. Depending on the price difference I may use the BD convertor with revmax vb. That $900 input shaft is pricey. Only goerend seems to recommend it tho. Don't know if it's because of how they design their convertor or not although I'm sure it's good insurance. That would put me in the 3k range. At that point do I just bite the bullet and do a whole trans? Ugh...decisions to fix crap that ain't broke!

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

0 Comment(s)